What is the best value Grand Cru red Burgundy
- Chambertin Clos de Beze
- Chambertin adjuncts
- Bonnes Mares
- Clos de la Roche
- Clos des Lambrays
- Clos des Tarts
- Clos St Denis
- Clos Vougeot
- Grands Echezeaux
- Grand Rue
- La Romanee
- La Tache
- Romanee Conti
- Romanee St Vivant
- Corton adjuncts
I’m way out of my league here, but just had one of my very few, so here’s the question:
What Grand Cru red Burgundies are the best values? I’ve rarely been thrilled with Corton or its satellites, but I haven’t had many and have been told that they need more time than I’ve usually given them (a '76 from Bonneau du Martray was a benchmark for me). If price is no object, I guess you could vote for Romanee-Conti, but I’m asking for values. I would not be shocked to see La Tache come into play… maybe 1/5th the price of R-C but apparently a whole lot closer in quality. Sorry to say I wouldn’t know.
Please vote for up to three.
I went back and forth between Clos St Denis and Clos de las Roche and picked the former.
Suggesting three choices. I wish I could have them ranked in the poll.
My three, in order, are:
Of course I haven’t had them all. Would be nice if there was an option for ‘haven’t had’ or ‘out of my league’.
I would argue for the Chambertin adjuncts - there are excellent examples of Latricieres, Charmes/Mazoyeres, Mazis and Ruchottes that get very little love. Griottes is in the hands of fewer and more famed producers, but even then, the wines can seem undervalued, albeit less than the other adjuncts.
I’ll gladly take a Corton Marechaudes or a Corton Charlemagne from Chandon de Briailles.
I love Clos de la Roche but the ones I REALLY love aren’t values.
if value is defined as the highest possible quality for the lowest possible price I rank as follows.
- The best producers of Clos Vougeot
- “Off” vintages of great producers in great terroirs Ex. 2007 Ponsot CDR,
- Chambertin adjuncts
Where is Griottes?
Domaine des Chezeaux Griottes: entirely produced by Laurent Ponsot and roughly $200, this is my “best value” GC.
My final choices were between Corton Bressandes or Clos St Denis and picked Bressandes. Ten years ago, the choice would be easy, Rousseau Ruchottes.
In the Chambertin adjuncts?
Ha, these were two of my choices, too. I’ve had recent drop dead gorgeous Corton, Corton adjuncts, and CsD, all for under $100. Seems like good value to me.
Obviously, producer is HUGELY important, especially in Corton and adjuncts. There are many examples which I’ve found less enjoyment than better producers’ villages.
I’m opening a 99 Follin Arbelet Corton Bressandes tonight with roast pork.
Perhaps the problem is that there are two tiers of Grand crus; and for the most part, the values are in the second tier. Overall though, the best wine value is unequivocally the wines of Gevrey.
In the second tier, you have some really serious values in Latriciere, Ruchottes, Mazis etc. And in the top tier, Chambertin and Beze can hold their own against the greats of Chambolle and Vosne. Yet apart from Rousseau, the prices seem relatively low.
“unequivocally” - hehe. I must have been wrong, then. damn.
Let us know how is the Follin Arbelet Bressandes. Another producer I am keen to try in the future!
Sorry, Brady. Think I am right, I may be wrong, but’s unequivocal that it is one or the other.
Seriously, I like Corton, but personally I can’t think of that many that I would like as much as a minor Gevrey.
I think value can be found from good producers (not the most in-demand, consensus-best producers) in the largest vineyards, like some of the Chambertin-adjuncts and Corton. I also would include Echezeaux in this category, and I think it’s interesting that Echezeaux is being relatively overlooked, even in this thread.
St. Martin Bonnes Mares or Chambertin, Tortochot grand crus, the occasional Corton (that requires patience), but certainly no great value these days . . .
I thin the Rousseau “adjunct” Chambertins: Ruchottes and Mazy-Chambertin might well be the best values in Grand Cru RB, particularly their Mazy. Others’ examples of Mazis can be really good values, too.
I was torn between answering Clos Vougeot and the adjuncts…but went with the latter…though it was close.
Lots of CV is very good value and very good grand cru wine. Like with all of Burgundy, knowing the producer and its holdings is crucial.
1999 Follin Arbelet Corton Bressandes - Great potential. Dark fruits. Very primary still. Fine structure, without the stereotypical rough tannins one thinks they should find in Cortons. But still so young, I might have guessed 2010 blind! Still yummy, though.
Follin Arbelet is an underrated producer, whose wines I target at close-out sales. Sad for them, good for me.
For fun, and to test Mark’s hypothesis, I audibled and decanted a 2011 Fourrier Gevrey VV next. Damn, he makes some great wine. This, while more obvious, was consumed much faster, and was definitely preferred by my table-mates. Sadly, I think I may have paid more for the villages than the grand cru.
Yes, the '11 Fourrier GC VV is very good, I have already consumed 4 bottles.
Well, as it´s so often the case: it depends.
(BTW: there are no Corton adjuncts - all Cortons with an additional name (C. Bressandes, Clos du Roi, Rognets etc. are real Cortons, but with an additional specific vineyard designation … and Aloxe-Cortons are not Grand Crus)
I voted for
Clos de la Roche
because they are usually relatively less expensive than others (e.g. Clos de Lambrays, Bonnes Mares … ) and many different producers release good examples. However one has to know the producer and its qualities (as always in Burgundy).
On the other hand e.g. Chambertin and Ch.CdBeze are always more expensive, but only a handful producers make really great Chambertins (and are expensive) - but several are really disapointing.
Cortons (with or without vineyard designation) need really a lot of cellaring time … opening one before 15, better 20 years will usuallly not provide great pleasure … and my experience here in WB taught me that few wine lovers have enough patience …
However - if one looks for the great experience of a wine from Vosne-Romanee an Echezeaux might also be a good choice, but one has to be very selective … and the best are already very pricey …
GCs like La Romanee, Romanee-Conti et al … cannot really be called “values” - they might be 1, 2, 3 … points better than the fine examples of “lesser” GCs, but are often 10, 5, 3 times as expensive …