What causes wines to “shut down”?

WINE TALK
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I’m trying to learn more about this and would love any experiences, ideas, or resources that you all may have.

The question is: why do wines temporarily shut down? What is going on in that wine to make it close up? Is it actually happening in every case, or can bottle variation / low levels of TCA / something else cause individual bottles of wine to seem shut down when another bottle of the same vintage may be singing? That’s not something I’ve had the resources to investigate personally.

Do you find that wines that have shut down will eventually open up that night (or the following day) with air? Or sometimes but not always?

Are there wines that are particularly prone to shutting down, and wines that aren’t? If so, why?

Stories welcome :slight_smile:

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Holy grail stuff . . .

I do fine it interesting that if a wine does not show well, the initial reaction is often that the wine is ‘shut down’ rather than any other potential reason.

To me, this is like a non wine drinkers claiming a wine is ‘off’ just because it does not smell or taste good to them . . .

This will be interesting to follow . . .

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When I hear/ read “shut down”, it’s implied there was a previous taste. The tannins move forward and are more pronounced. The primary notes are less (muted?)than the prior taste and structure has changed, either tightened or thinned.

I’d love to hear the notes everyone has to compare. Baby fat is used often but what does it really taste like?

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Fascinating question, one with which I’m extremely curious to find out if there are theories that make sense! Also a bit surprised I don’t recall this ever being asked, though so many of us talk about it so frequently. CT notes are jammed with mentions of ‘closed down’/‘shut down’, and we all make guesses on when that will end.

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If there is a scientific explanation for it, I haven’t heard it. But no, a wine with low level TCA isn’t shut down, it’s dead and will not recover. Wines do not shut down for a day but rather for months or years. Since the vast majority of wine is made for immediate consumption, it’s wine with the potential for aging that is more likely to shut down.

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I’ve heard it speculated that it’s a complex ratio taking into account the cost of the wine, your expectations of it, and your experience with it.

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Hmmmm, my tuppenceworth is that classic French reds are prone to shutting down. They are often not meant for enjoying in their youth and the structure that gives the ability to age can taste awkward during the process. For instance I would not open most cru classe Bordeaux at less than a decade old unless I had been specifically told it was early maturing.

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But many wines certainly do shut down… Even individual bottles will open with vibrant flavors or aromatics which then seem to recede with more air. Burgundy and Nebbiolo are particularly known for having a youthful, open phase followed by a phase where they show little fruit but much structure. In time the wines will show more fruit again once the acids and tannins stop being so dominant. They won’t be the same as they were in their youth but will still show with more generous scents and flavors than they did in their awkward adolescence.

I can’t contribute to the discussion of why, but I’ve certainly learned that it’s a real thing and to avoid opening certain wines at certain points in their life.

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I think that a distinction should be made between wines that are slow to open but will do so with exposure to air and wines that initially seem open and then shut down with exposure to air as opposed to wines that are going through a “dumb” phase and are unresponsive even with manipulation.

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[snort.gif] champagne.gif [stirthepothal.gif]

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I’m not saying they don’t, but I think the term is now a ‘catch all’ that makes it even more difficult to classify or define.

Cheers

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I love this point. I think our language gets inefficient when we use terms like “shut down” and “closed” - when I read tasting notes, especially brief ones, sometimes it’s not clear to me which of your examples the author is referring to.

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I’m your experience, is a wine that shuts down after opening also a wine that is prone to shutting down some time during its cellaring? Are these different types of shutting? Is a wine that has shut down and reopened again now open for good, or can it go through phases? I have so many questions.

To Larry’s original post, I have had that same reaction - while wines may indeed shut down, my sense is that we as a community tend to be quick to explain a muted or underperforming bottle as a natural and acceptable part of its life cycle as opposed to something else.

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Usually, it’s the nature of a particular varietal but, sometimes it is the style of winemaking. Barolos typically, shut down for a while, CdP is also prone to this but I’ve seen it in California Cabs and Syrah as well.

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+1 (assuming you’re contrasting the first two categories, (a) with the third, (b).

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Yes, it can be used to explain mediocrity, and it’s pretty much irrefutable!

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Red Bordeaux certainly had that reputation. I’m not sure with the big changes in winemaking and styles in the last 25 years if that’s still true.

A recall reading that Gaston Huet of Vouvray fame said his wines were best young or with 17+ years.

Condrieu (100% viognier) also had a reputation for needing 10 or 15 years to emerge from its shell.

J.J. Prum rieslings can be that way, I’ve found – pleasantly sweet for many years but not showing their potential complexity for a long time.

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I think the idea is that a good quality, long aging red can have a short window in its youth when the fruit is so powerful that it shows well in a youthful, fruit-driven way. But then the fruit recedes behind the tannin and structure, and the wine becomes muted despite it being discernable that there is much fruit and concentration lurking in the wine. And then many years later, the tannins mature to where the fruit, secondary flavors and tannin come back into balance in what is the wine’s good drinking window.

A helpful background concept is that the different things that are changing as a wine ages do not change at the same rate or at the same times, so a wine may not go from too young to just right to too old in a linear fashion the way one might assume.

I think it is a thing that happens sometimes, particularly with tannic long aging wines like classic Barolo and Bordeaux. I don’t think there is any real science or hard data to support it, so it’s just an observational / anecdotal / experiential thing, and as such, it’s subject to a great many things that influence a person’s perceptions.

I also tend to agree with the peanut gallery above that it’s a concept wine geeks are way too in love with and overuse liberally for any time they love a label but the wine didn’t show well. Followed by bottle variation/off bottle and travel shock.

I think the most helpful way to think of “shut down” is just that it’s a more wine geeky way of saying “too young” and “needs more age.”

Then again, I might just be in a dumb phase myself, which at this point in life I may or may not ever emerge from.

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I used to note this with CdP more than in recent/(even)riper vintages. Youthful fruit, liveliness. Not much going on 3-6 years after vintage, then reemerging (obviously different from the youthful phase). Seems different than the more linear trajectory of certain wines that are just hard as nails and closed up aromatically young, and gradually emerge.

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That may well be true, and wine terminology lends itself to that sort of confusion. OTOH I’m not one to worry too much about precision in wine terms or spend much effort in understanding the science of this hobby, I just want to know what works. As with many other wine descriptions, I’ll trust it if heard from a trustworthy source and otherwise will not.