Virginia Wine: The National Stage?

WINE TALK
41

I am also guilty of believing I have an ounce of credibliity on here which I do not. Few, if any of you, know me. So a half dozen people write believing I have a relationship with the Va wine board (or whoever I believe is not properly representing VA; who conveniently have forgotten that Washington, D. C. is a national market for their wine and they are ignoring it in favor of Richmond.) One even posts a photo of a hot air balloon which my wife would suggest was totally accurate, even flattering…

I should have written about my 25+ years of drinking other wine first then I might have been taken more seriously. But I didn’t. I started with VA. But that’s all right. With the right bottle I am satisfied that I chose well.

Still, I am not going to wear out a welcome with my first few posts. All I ask is that anyone reading this consider several of the wines and wineries I have mentioned when they are judging VA wine. Not what they might taste at a wine festival or a tasting at a winery whose business model is weddings, limos or the occasional dog. Rather, there are several that are serious. These are the ones I am suggesting.

42

Interesting thread to read, seems to be wildly divergent views on VA wine. Admittedly, I’m a big VA wine fan (just check me out on CT). I’m a fan of many of the wines listed here like Linden and RdV. Save for poor vintages, I’m looking at you 2011, the general quality is increasing. There are some very nice VA wines. Will the wine ever be as generally well-regarded as Napa or Bordeaux? Doubtful, but that’s the case for the rest of the US.

43

Joe–don’t despair.
Keep posting. I am afraid that I am in the other camp but your passionate posts create great discussion, which is fundamental on WB. At least you have me thinking about a visit or at least an exploratory tasting.
(still think most are seriously overpriced though)

44

While I enjoy and prefer many wines from other regions over those from VA I do think there are many ingredients there that give the region promise. I have had many a good wine in VA and I think they are getting better. With people like Jim Law(Linden), Tony Wolf(VaTech), and a state government that supports the wine industry the ingredients are there for a practical and intellectual infrastructure to make an sustainable improvement path. It is my guess that refinement of site selection and varieties & clones will be key and dropping comparisons to other areas will help marketing. As mentioned before it is true that as long as people pay the money and weddings take precedent over viticulture/winemaking money is made and there’s no reason to change. However, Virginia has enough key people to stay focused on quality wine production. I’m very hopeful for the region…Gary

45

I sincerely appreciate the warmth and acceptance that so many have shown me. (Should I mention tolerance, too?) Really, thank you. Thank you!

If several of you decide to go-because my temporary credibility is now on the line, I have several suggestions (again, more tolerance is called for!).

If I were taking friends from out of town to two or three wineries I would (and have) taken them to these:

  1. Delaplane Cellars which has a spectacular view, halfway up the side of Lost Mountain (RDV is the only other winery on Lost Mountain, on the D. C. side). If you go ask for a bottle of either '10 Williams Gap or '10 Left Bank Reserve. I think they are sold out of both but if you really show passion they may implore the owner (who used to make wine in his basement) and he may join you for a sip. I should note here, without being serious, that I had back surgery this summer. I couldn’t drink wine for over a month while taking painkillers. My first glass “back” was Delaplane’s Williams Gap. This is the longest I have gone without alcohol since high school. And, I am old.
  2. Glen Manor has several outstanding wines, certainly among Virginia’s best . Similar to Delaplane the setting is breathtakingly beautiful. I mentioned above that it looks, for all the world like an Austrian mountainside out back. It does. Or, if you closed your eyes, and opened them in Garmisch/Partenkirchen you would feel right at home. The '09 Hodder Hill won Virginia’s Governor’s Cup. I sincerely believe his '10 is as good or better. He also makes a fantastic Petit Verdot that may be as fine of a VA wine as I have ever tasted. '10 is about to be released. Petit Manseng is also exceptional. I must also add here that Jeff’s wife is a wonderful ambassador for the “front of the house” who makes everyone who comes in the door feel special. Betsy Dolphin at Delaplane is similarly exceptional. There is a point here: an experience at a winery is more than just the wine. The setting is a huge factor and the welcome really matters. Both Kelly and Betsy are exceptional at welcoming guests into their homes-their tasting rooms.
  3. Linden. Jim Law has had more influence on the VA wine industry than anyone. His '09 Hardscrabble red is tight and needs time. Avenius is an alcoholic, fruit forward, jammy mouthful that for some may be better. I tasted both '09 and '10 side by side and would be proud to pour either. Both have a satiny mouthfeel that, for some, will be amazing for a VA wine. Linden’s best wine, though, is his Boisseau. A perspective here: it is even bigger and jammier than the Avenius. For someone that like’s this style of wine (i.e. me but I also love shiraz, syrah, amarone, etc.) you will feel at home. For anyone who is reading this: if I met you at Linden this is the bottle I would open. You will not believe that any Virginia winery is capable of a wine like this. Never mind the 15.8% alcohol. Satiny is the word that best describes a wine best tasted in a small fishbowl. (Glen Manor’s '09 Petit Verdot was also a big jammy mouthful.)

Now, the negative: several of these are really small production wines. You probably won’t find them through a wholesaler and at the wineries you’ll have to show real passion. But my guess is that you’ll find the same pride in what they have made and they’ll gladly open a bottle for you.

And, GO ON A WEEKDAY! Not a weekend. And, don’t show up in a limo with nine other grooms or bridesmaids. If appropriate find a driver but go when they can spend time with you and share your passion.

46

$35 may be too high - but I have certainly seen mid to high $20 Roses. Here is a $30 Viognier!

http://www.rappahannockcellars.com/index.cfm?method=storeproducts.showdrilldown&productid=649c94f8-ebab-97e6-09ea-1d0e209a2f4a&ProductCategoryID=DD87619A-A5DF-22AC-0FB8-DB72C492AB70&WineryID=B85A799C-C987-AB43-1306-5DE6A0B0157A&WineTypeID=&ProductType=&wineVarietalID=&wineRegionID=&vintage=&lowprice=&highPrice=&WineBrandID=&WineAppellationID=&lowletter=&highletter=&OrderBy=PXPC.DisplayOrder%20Asc,%20P.ProductName%20ASC&ShippingState=VA

$24 Rose

https://www.vinoshipper.com/wines/delaplane_cellars/ros_3,769

$30 Syrah

https://www.vinoshipper.com/wines/delaplane_cellars/syrah_3,415

Compare to Ojai Syrahs in the low $20s.

And there are many green VA Cabs in the $30+ range (I’ve had many bell peppers in my travels).

If people are willing to pay the prices, then that is the market price and that’s the way it is. But my view is that those are wine tourist prices, not market retail prices. When people in California start buying Virginia wine, then Virginia is on the National Stage. I’m not trying to be negative because I appreciate anyone who grows grapes and endeavors to make great wine. But I just don’t see it given the climate, high cost of agriculture, terroir…but happy to be proven wrong.

47

You know, if you have enough money, you could probably get Michel Rolland to land in your backyard in a helicopter and make wine. Doesn’t mean the wine is going to be any good.

48

You can carp about the price, quality, relative immaturity of the industry, wrong grapes, etc., but as a former VA and North Carolina resident, I suspect that the “you can never make great wine” argument, based upon even very good 10,000-foot, arm-chair science, is a loser. If the dirt will never yield great grapes, so be it, but once you get into the higher elevations of those two states, you have a very similar climate to the Piemonte in Italy. That is why they call the mountain foothill regions of both states “the Piedmont”, eh? The acreage suitable for growing grapes would seem to be much smaller, so it seems certain that some people are trying to make wine in areas not well suited for it. (Reminds me of the attempt to make wine barely north of Atlanta?). The only thing less certain is what is happening below. The famous nebbia of the Piemonte geothermal. Not sure whether that exists in VA and NC.

49

Joe, some may be unable to share your enthusiasm for the current state of the VA wine industry, but with one exception, I think your posts have been greeted with respect and interest. I hope you continue to share your experiences about VA wines and those from other regions.

50

There are many producers in many parts of the world that deserve far more exposure than the Virginia wines. They have been doing it far longer and much better and ask far less for their wine. So I find it a bit difficult to give attention to some hot new project with good marketing and a pretty barn. Sorry. Just different views of wine. And that is what makes the world go round.

51

OK, two exceptions. [wow.gif]

52

Thanks Neal.

53

I’m here for you, buddy

54

Oddly enough I was in DUlles yesterday and had about a 3 hour wait. I went in vino volio and had the VA sampler.

The viognier was palatable, both the reds were not something I would drink. Admittedly all these were no name wines, but I also tried the no name pinot sampler and all of them I would drink for low price wines.

Not evidence by any means, and not to say there are no good wines in VA, but for my money, I believe the whites have a bit of promise, the reds have a ways to go.

And still the money argument shows up in the whites…I can find as good for half the price often.

55

Just to put some numbers to this - these data are from a weather station at Front Royal, VA, elevation 932 feet, for the period 1996 - 2010.
http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/orders/cdo/231384.csv

July Average high / avg total precip - 86.4 / 3.1’’
August Average high / avg total precip - 85.7 / 3.4’’
September Average high / avg total precip - 78.4 / 5.7’’ (though the standard deviation was 4.1’')

Linden has some vineyards that are another 400 feet higher, so I don’t know how much difference that added elevation makes, nor do I know what RdV’s vineyard elevation is.

56

I have 350 vines on my property in Maryland as a hobby, not as a business. Its basically a test vineyard comprised of 11 reds and 4 whites. It’s also a young vineyard with the first vines planted in 2006 and the most recent in 2011. But from what I have seen a number of the things listed as reasons why quality grapes can’t be grown in VA really don’t seem to be issues.

Fall rain is probably the biggest issue and years like 2011 prove that out. Yet in many years its not much of a problem. Rootstocks for the east coast are predominately 101-14 and Riparia Gloria with some 420A more recently. These are shallow rooted stocks that were chosen to help control vigor and when planted on well drained soils do have less problems with late season rain. Most of the reds discussed in this thread harvest in October so August and even early Sept rains are not as much of an issue as has been implied. There are many years when fall rain does not impact quality significantly.

Humidity is a management problem. I have not seen it impact quality unless mildew or rot gets out of control. There are changes to viticultural practices that need to be used for the east coast such as leave pulling as early as bloom for more air movement and more stringent spray programs than one has in California. However, there is no real reason why this should impact grape quality.

Summer high temperatures I don’t believe is an issue. The area is hot but I am not convinced that the high temps in VA are worse than other hot regions where grapes are successfully grown. As noted by others location can reduce those temps for a specific microclimate.

Summer low temperatures is something I had feared before I started growing. One always reads warm days/cold nights is best. Yet, I am now unsure as to what is the benefit of cold nights. I have read its to retain acid yet acidity is not a problem for my yard (sand/gravel soil) and I have tasted wines from VA that are not lacking acid (Linden Avenius comes immediately to mind). Maybe they are acidified as I don’t know but the Avenius is always the most acidic of Linden’s reds and whites so I tend to believe its natural.

I thought short growing season was mentioned although I don’t see it now so either I missed it this time or imagined it before. Regardless, bud break is generally in April and harvest in October for the reds discussed in this thread. I don’t think that this is significantly shorter than elsewhere and there has not been an issue with ripeness in the short time I have been growing. I have read that the warm nights that we experience may actually be a benefit on getting to full ripeness since the vines rarely shut down at night.

Soils are varied and I am sure that there are many soils that are not suitable. I don’t know enough to dismiss all soils as unacceptable for quality grape production but that may be the case. In my case my sand/gravel soil drains great which is my primary concern but the soil pH is lower than I would like and I do have some problem related to that most often with potassium.

What I find to be the biggest issue is the general vigor of the vines. Excessive green growth can be a problem but proper rootstock, soils, use of cover crop and proper trellising makes it a managable issue.

Agree that Va should not be compared to bordeaux or california as it is different. But I am still not sure what it is about these differences that limit the abiltiy to consistently grow quality grapes in a properly chosen location. As with all regions, site selelction is key.

57

Cool post. Thank you.

58

+1

59

The real question is when do we get to taste the MD wine? Where in Maryland, btw?

60

If Piedmont is considered humid subtropical, I have no idea what that term means. I’ve visited there in June, July, August, September, October and December, and it’s not remotely subtropical in any lay sense. Certainly nothing like the steaminess of Barbourville or the rest of the U.S. Eastern Seaboard in the summer!