Virginia Wine: The National Stage?

WINE TALK
21

Thanks for doing the leg work Jay. Interesting. Our opinions on the wines are similar.

My reference to Napa was a result of what I perceive to be the target for most VA wineries. I think it is a mistake to try to replicate the NoCal experience here precisely because the climates are so different. I think they need to look elsewhere for a model

22

My sincere appreciation to the many of you who tolerated my excessive, verbose opinions above!

I have no connection to the VA (or any other) wine industry in any way. I apologize for the following but since I am new on this board and several have questioned my interest with a post like this, I’ll give two links about who I am. Again, I apologize but I know of no other way to qualify my opinions and background.

From Linked In, this is me: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=34659819&goback=.nmp_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1&trk=spm_pic

And, because as you are already finding out, I have too many opinions:
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2009-05-03/news/36795045_1_restaurant-staff-great-restaurant-heflin-first

I also had a background of sorts with James Beard but I retired from that, too. Simply, I am old (66) and passionately love wine and food. As a native born Washingtonian (Sibley hospital when it was on North Capitol street) and a mother (waitress) and father (chef) in the industry I have been around food and wine all my life. I first went to Piedmont in the late '70’s and visited Linden just after it opened sometime in the '80’s. I do know or ahve met several owners but again, have no financial interest in any way with the industry. Nor am I a publicist or connected with the state in any way.

Having said all that…

I find the tastings that several of you did interesting. I went to the RDV brown bag tasting in May and, immodestly, correctly guessed every wine. (Many of the people at our table did, too.) I thought the Caymus Special Select was far and away the best. The Roundezvous the worst. When I first tasted RDV two years ago I thought RDV (before it was called Lost Mountain and made at Linden) was far superior to Roundezvous. At an Eric Ziebold dinner a year or so ago the '09 Lost Mountain, again, was far superior. At that time I thought it was ridiculous to charge $55 for the second wine, let alone the $75 it now is.

All that has changed.

For '08 Roundezvous two years of bottle age has made this an entirely different wine. Similarly, at Red Hen two nights ago after more than an hour open the '09 Roundezvous was drinking fabulously. My good friend from Vancouver has drank his way through both the Okanagan and Napa and taken “vacations” to Walla Walla.

He was shocked at what he was drinking from Virginia.

Delaplane’s Williams Gap '10 is a similarly interesting wine: in January it was very good but not really worth the $48 unless there was a heavy case discount on it. By August I bought another case: just seven months more in the bottle and it had smoothed out, was juicy and fruit forward. It drank like a $50 wine should.

My comments above about Glen Manor’s Hodder Hill, Petit Verdot, the Linden wines and so forth.

Point is that I have no idea how to grow grapes. Nor where they should be grown. I am only into drinking (something in life that I am good at!). But I know what something tastes like. That’s important to me. In years past if I had a bottle of VA wine it was usually something I picked up at a visit to a winery and some kind of memory. But the idea of “investing” in VA wine because I wanted to put it down for four or five years and drink it later-that was out of the question.

I have more than ten cases I have bought in the last six months, mostly of 2010. That’s more than ten cases of Virginia. Where I used to buy Washington and others I am now also buying Virginia. I believe that 2010 is a signature year, a year that will take Virginia onto the national stage. I also believe that some of these bottles, laid down for a while, will be exceptional. Not just for Virginia, but for very good wine at a fair price point.

I just know what I like. When I read some of the comments in this thread and the earlier ones I referenced I can’t help but passionately express what I feel.

Again, I apologize for my two links but I know of no other way to confirm who I am or am not.

Last, I am happy to post my full name. Please forgive my ignorance but can someone tell me how to change it? I can’t figure out how to do it!?! (But of course my opinions about wine are faultless!) Thanks again to everyone.

23

Enjoying all the Virginia talk.
Regarding pricing, I know there’s a lot of “super premium”-ish wines that are pushing those higher price tags, but I drink a fair amount of Virginia wine throughout the year that I think is very well made, and almost all of it is sub-$20, especially the whites.
Even the flagship reds at most spots rarely set you back more than $30.
Something of an aside, but I recently read a book on the industry in the state where a winemaker–the RDV guy, if memory serves–laments that one of the “problems” in the march toward better and better quality is that the wine is too easy to sell. That is, there’s not always that incentive to strive to make the best wine possible if people on daytrips from DC or going through cases at vineyard-hosted weddings are going to snap it up regardless.
I’m certainly not stating that as fact, but definitely something that some folks will suggest.

24

Sounds good!One of the best times to be here.I assume you’re not opening a Virginia bubbly for Kwanzaa…? champagne.gif

25

There are different business models and wineries such as Bluemont hosting weddings have a model entirely different from Glen Manor, Linden, Delaplane or RDV.

There are also wine festivals and fairground like events where people swill as much as they can for X number of dollars. You’re not going to see the wineries named above at one of these. If a better winery is at one more than likely they will not be pouring one of their better wines. Most of the better wines must be purchased at the winery. (again, using Breaux’ Nebbiolo as an example).

A separate topic would be the value of wine festivals for the overall image of Virginia wine. While many of these are a financial success I believe they hurt the overall image.

Also, I mentioned Hillsborough Onyx which is a good $30 wine at a fair price point. I’ve been to Hillsborough a half dozen times since it opened. I don’t believe I’ve seen anyone else buy a bottle of it and sit outside taking in the incredible Tuscan like view. Usually it’s a cheaper bottle or a glass. And, the cheaper bottle or what is available to be poured by the glass will only reinforce the popular image of VA wine. Several times, out of pride, I’ve shared the bottle my wife and I have had, even giving away half of it. Just because I thought it was a good wine and wanted others to experience it.

26

RdV Lost Mountain is an excellent wine, meant for long-aging, and I think once the track record is more established, and people see how it drinks with 10+ years of age, it will be thought of as world-class (if it’s not already). As Joe H. has said, the wine really benefits from a lot of air. It showed poorly at the Weygandt Wines tasting because of the pop-and-pour format (disclosure: I helped organize and attend that tasting). I’ve been accused by my DC wine friends of being a shill for Rutger, but I actually believe in what he’s doing. I would also add that the target is Bordeaux, not Napa, in part because of the amount of rain they get in Virginia. The location was specifically picked for its well-draining granite soils.

I’ve done comparisons blind (at the winery, at Weygandt, etc.) and non-blind (most memorably in an epic wine dinner at RdV that we organized privately - see below), and it certainly belongs in the discussion with other Cab/BDX blends, price be damned. For example, here’s the list of wines we opened at the aforementioned dinner, and I can tell you that everyone that attended placed the '08 RdV (the '09 was too young at the time to evaluate) in at least the top half of the list, if not top 5:

2008 RdV Rendezvous
2009 RdV Rendezvous
2008 La Confession St. Emilion
2006 Havens Reserve Merlot
2008 RdV
2009 RdV
2004 Montrose
2008 La Reserve de Leoville Barton
2007 Montes Alpha “M”
2006 Clerc Milon
2006 Duckhorn Estate CS
2007 Outpost CS
2006 Ghost Horse Shadow

27

Jay - I think this hits the nail on the head as well as what Dave said about the wines are too easy to sell at the current pricing. I was in the C’ville area last month and was shocked that every winery we went to said the biggest challenge was not having enough grapes to keep up with demand. Even my wife, who has called me a snob for the last decade or so for saying that VA wine just isn’t worth the money, came away from the trip saying she finally understood what I have been saying all these years. I have probably ruined her palate by turning her on to wonderful chablis, chenin blanc, rieslings and chards from Rhys, Ceritas, Arcadian and Copain, but I am shocked that there is this much demand when there are so many better wines to be had for the same prices elsewhere.

28

It’s utterly infuriating to hear people repeat marketing pablum like this as fact! VA’s climate has as much in common with Bordeaux as I have in common with Pope Francis.

Charlottesville, VA
--------July – Aug. – Sept.
Temp 87.5-- 86.0 – 79.3
Precip 5.31"- 4.04" – 4.89"

Bordeaux, France
Temp 80.4-- 80.8 – 75.2
Precip 1.97"- 2.20" – 3.31"

This is to say nothing of the complete dissimilarity in soils, underlying rocks . . . I mean, at least if they told you they were striving to mimic the wines of Lombardy, it would only be 50% marketing BS and 50% substantive.

29

People here in Virginia seem to has forgotten the old saying “don’t start a fight you can’t win”. And this is not a fight that Virginia can win.

30

RdV isn’t in Charlottesville (Delaplane, 100 miles away, is both slightly cooler and less rainy). Also, have you seen the soil studies that cost Rutger so much time and money? Because I have. This isn’t some two-bit operation where somebody bought an orchard and ripped it up, planted grapes and built a pretty barn to host weddings.

31

I would love to see the soil study that says that soil developed on granite in a humid climate is akin to the soils on the gravels of the Medoc. It’s laughable. Keep on plucking that chicken.

32

I was excited when I read about RdV and signed-up for the first vintage sight unseen or tasted (in spite of the ridiculous tariff). I agree with Scott’s comments regarding the structure of Lost Mountain (and Rendezvous) and, even though I have a number of bottles of same in my cellar, the tasting referenced above was the first time I had tried the wine (allocations were very small). In spite of being a brand new winery with no track record, my several trips to RdV to pick-up my allocation were never accompanied by a tasting of these wines (which was a bit frustrating given the lack of any notes and high prices), although the first year they did pour some of the Friends and Family, which I purchased. The Friends and Family was a very nicely balanced wine. A bit on the green side, but it benefited from cellar time and the last bottle was quite good and well-constructed. But stated otherwise, I was a bit disappointed when I did finally have a chance to try the Lost Mountain, in spite of the fact that it was clearly a long-term ager. I did not purchase my RdV allocation this year because I felt that if I wanted to spend money on overpriced wine that I couldn’t drink for 10 years - I would rather buy Burgundies. [smileyvault-ban.gif]

As far as the rest of Virginia, I have had some decent/good wines. I admit to not having done a significant survey although the tasting that Scott organized had a wide selection and I have visited some of the usual suspects. I have yet to have a great wine, however. And the other issue I see is the pricing. As I mentioned in another thread, the grapes that do well can be made into nice wines, but the pricing is crazy for same. I’ve had many drinkable whites and rose’s that turned out to be $30-$40 a bottle. Why in the world would I pay $35 for rosé or Viognier from Virginia when I can buy French quaffers for $15 and Tempier for $35? Sancerre Monts Damnes for $25? Summer garden party Touraines for $11. Bedrock Old Wine Zinfandel or North Coast Syrah for $19/20.

And outside of the usual suspects the wineries (and accompanying wines) that I’ve visited seem to exist and are geared for one purpose - wine tourism. Obviously that is fine, and great that we have that in our backyard. But it is not an argument that Virginia is somehow a player in the wine industry. I wish that weren’t the case because I’d love to support some local wineries.

33

I’m not sure why this should keep them from trying to make wine in a style more similar to Bordeaux than Napa. No one is claiming that they are trying to make actual Bordeaux.

34

Zylberberg: Where are you based? If you’re ever in DC, I propose a blind tasting. You pick any three Bordeaux you like that cost between $80-100 per bottle. We’ll do them, blind, with RdV’s wines. We’ll see if they come in 4th and 5th, as I’m sure you’d predict. I’ll pay for the RdV wines and even one of the Bordeaux.

35

The argument is that the soils/climate are somehow closer to Bordeaux than Napa, so that VA wineries should be striving to make wines in the style of Bordeaux. The reality is that Virgina’s soils and climate have little resemblence to either Bordeaux or Napa, or nearly any other great wine-growing region for that matter, and any attempt to draw a parallel is just marketing BS.

The more I look at it, the more I am struck by the similarity of the climate of the Po Valley to parts of the Eastern US, and I’d be interested to see if the grapes they grow there would do well here . . . but generally, those wines are sparklers and $15 quaffers, not $50 Serious Wines.

36

I don’t necessarily predict they’d come in 4th or 5th; lord knows there is a lot of terrible Bordeaux out there, and Bordeaux tastes like crap when its young (or at least, it should). None of this has anything to do with the fundamentally unsuitable climate of Virginia for high-level viticulture, and the enormous amounts of money, effort (and chemicals) that need to be thrown at the vines in order to make even mediocre wine. The rocks, the climate, and the soils don’t lie.

37

Interesting the number of posts that are critical of VA wine and, in particular, RDV. Again, I have no connection in any way to RDV or any other winery BUT:

I’m a bit surprised that no one mentioned that

  1.    RdV’s winemaker is Eric Boissenot (who should need no introduction on Beserkers)

  2.   his vineyard consultant is Jean Philippe Roby, the viticulture consultant/professor from Bordeaux

  3.   The vineyard was developed based on advice from Dr Alfred Cass, the famous vineyard soil scientist, and with significant input from Daniel Roberts (aka “Doctor Dirt”) of Integrated Winegrowing in California.  Roberts is/was involved with Harlan estates, among others.

These guys would not waste their time if they thought RdV did not have “world class” potential (whatever that is).

I’m sorry but the argument about VA soil, temperature, precipitation really doesn’t matter to me. Bottom line is what it tastes like, what it feels like in my mouth. I am also insisting on a proper presentation. Not just a bottle of young wine that someone picks up but rather opening it, letting it decant, and then pouring it into a proper glass.

I am seriously suggesting that a number of VA wines will be worth every penny of what the asking price is. Properly presented, properly served.

38

JoeH - welcome to WB! Makes me think of…

39

Have you really seen $35 roses in Virginia? If so, that’s nutty. I’d say 90% of the roses I drink are French, but have had some VA examples I liked a lot, and never paid more than $15 or so. Stinson, west of Charlottesville, makes an excellent example out of Shenandoah Valley mourvedre that’s somewhere in the teens.

40

I dont think anyone is doubting the “world class” potential of VA wineries to separate customers from their dollars, which is the most important thing when it comes to a business.