Using corked wine making Coq au vin

Changed the title, and moving to Epicurean Exploits

I have made a delicate risotto using a badly corked bottle and it was great. Other dishes as well. Most of the time I just dump the corked bottle down the drain and don’t save it for any real length of time. But cooking is a great way to use a corked grand cru burgundy.

Yep, no issues using corked wine to cook with, though, like Chuck, I’ve normally poured it down the sink in disgust before I think to save it.

Do you have a sense how long you have to simmer the wine before TCA is not detectable any more? Wondering also if you left the house for any length of time, then came back in. Or if it could be you’re just saturated, and don’t notice it any more?

Alan - The article I cited above says that, when cooking dishes with alcohol in them, at boiling temperature, “[a]fter 15 minutes, 40% of the alcohol remains, after 30 minutes 35% and only after two and a half hours 5%. This is why it takes about three hours to eliminate all traces of alcohol.”

Do you think that rate would be different for TCA?

Well, TCA is a bigger, much less volatile molecule, I would have thought there’s a better chance that it remains in solution and gets more concentrated. OTOH, maybe something happens to it chemically when heated, so it just disappears that way? Really don’t know.

I’m shocked how many have/are ok with cooking with corked wine. I’m quite sensitive to it - Jen even more so - so perhaps that’s why I won’t do it, for fear of ruining a dish.

I’ve tried using corked wine for cooking and it always shows through. Like Todd, I’m very sensitive to TCA so there is that as well though.

I’m extremely sensitive to cork and have never had an issue cooking with tainted wine. I suppose it’s possible it was there and I just didn’t notice it. I’ve never experimented below boiling temperatures. I am not a scientist, only an experienced cook and braising with corked wine has never been an issue. I’m not drinking the braising liquid like soup, of course, but have never had even a whiff of cork or a reduction of flavor of the meat or sauce.

I’ve read that the TCA binds with fats in cooking, but I don’t recall any hard science or controlled tests. I usually have enough wine that is left over, or deemed not worth drinking, so I haven’t put corked wine to the cooking test. I can understand why someone would not want to expose themselves to the mustiness for any length of time before it is neutralized.

I’d say Qu 1 is the effect of heat, if any, on TCA. That should be basic science.
Absent hard facts I always come back to why risk a wine based dish per the topic of this thread. Deglazing for pan juices, perhaps. But I don’t tend to keep corked wines around - they go in the sink unless returnable :grinning:

+1. I’m sensitive to TCA and agree 100% with Sarah. Most of the people here (except Alex S.) who dismiss the idea have never tried it for fear of ruining a dish. Try it! Do something cheap and simple that uses a lot of wine, like risotto. Alex S. is the ONLY person I have ever heard say he perceives it in the finished product. That is simply not my experience.

So why can you never find a corked bottle when you want one… :slight_smile:

Now I really have to try this.

(The real test would be an ABX comparison of course, 3 plates of risotto or whatever. Sounds like a small team project. )

I’ve noticed it primarily in long stews/braises, should add TCA doesn’t “ruin the dish” for me.

Otoh, wines that DO “ruin the dish” for me would be anything super-spoofed and oaky.

FWIW- the boiling point of TCA is 140C/284F. I wouldn’t count on it boiling off, but general anecdotal testimony seems to be that it becomes undetectable.

Anyone want to venture a split test? Half of a stew with corked wine vs. half with a sound wine?

I covered this topic several years ago, here:

It is based on (limited) personal exoerience, and forum discussions like this one. Here’s a summary…

In my experience using a corked wine CAN give a nasty corked sauce. But combining that with many other people’s more positive experience, I would conclude that it depends on how badly corked the wine is, and how strong the other flavours in the sauce are. But, as in wine, just because you cannot smell/taste it, it could still be muting flavours.

As for the science, considering the boiling point of TCA, it is far from obvious that heating removes it. But there may be a steam distillation effect, or some chemical reaction that removes it. Note also that fats adsorb TCA, and they would also hinder boiling-off.

Personally I would say the sink is the only place for corked wine.

Thanks, Alan, Peter and Steve for bringing some science to bare on this.

Quick story for those who follow the 1 in the pot, 1 on the table way of thinking.
Once had someone make a boeuf bourguignon with very good Clos Vougeot. Perhaps due to label bias, they thought it was the best dish ever made. I thought it was quite average at best. I wasn’t told what wine was used until 1/2 way through dinner. Thankfully my opinion was already formed.

The relative quality of the wine makes zero difference if you’re stewing something for ages. Just pay a few dollars more for the best quality beef chuck/ round and make sure you season & sear each piece well. That’s infinitely more important than the wine used.

I do agree with those who mentioned you wouldn’t want an oak bomb. I haven’t tried corked wine. Chances are I never will due to timing of finding a corked bottle and when I want to make something braised.

If I had a significantly corked bottle, the first test I would do is just put it in a sauce pan on the stove and simmer it covered for an hour, then see if you can still detect TCA.

As an aside, since the aroma of TCA was mentioned below, apparently it doesn’t actually have an aroma itself, but just screws with how we perceive other aromas. There’s a fairly recent thread on this somewhere on WB.