Use of “old library book” in a tasting note

[Tom_Lee]

I posted a tasting note earlier for a 2005 Rochioli Pinot Noir Little Hill Vineyard. When I smelled the wine last night I thought I picked up on an aroma I would associate with old library books. I ended up using the descriptor leather instead. Have you smelled old library book in a wine? I asked the same question on Twitter and it had a negative connotation for many who assumed Brett or TCA when in actuality the wine was breathtaking. Have you something similar to old library book in a tasting note?

Thanks, Tom

[Tom_Lee]

I posted a tasting note earlier for a 2005 Rochioli Pinot Noir Little Hill Vineyard. When I smelled the wine last night I thought I picked up on an aroma I would associate with old library books. I ended up using the descriptor leather instead. Have you smelled old library book in a wine? I asked the same question on Twitter and it had a negative connotation for many who assumed Brett or TCA when in actuality the wine was breathtaking. Have you used something similar to old library book in a tasting note?

Thanks, Tom

[Brian_Gilp]

1995 Ridge Geyserville a few years ago. All tasters agreed. And agree that it can be a good thing.

[Matthew_Brown]

Another reference doomed to go by the wayside.

[Shan_A]

I get the old library book quite often in very old wines, e.g. 60s Barolo. I don’t associate it with TCA/Brett as it is more of a mustiness and doesn’t worsen with air, and it is not something that I enjoy. I do say “musty old library book” to be more specific though.

[John_Morris]

To me that sounds like TCA. Old books smell faintly moldy to me, like the damp cardboard of TCA.

But there are a lot of compounds found in old books:

What Causes "Old Book Smell"?

And in one academic study in England, people sniffing an old book described it as having chocolate scents, with vanilla and grass:

That “Old Book Smell” Is a Mix of Grass and Vanilla

Go figure.

[Robert.A.Jr]

To me that sounds like TCA. Old books smell faintly moldy to me, like the damp cardboard of TCA.

But there are a lot of compounds found in old books:
What Causes "Old Book Smell"? | Mental Floss

And in one academic study in England, people sniffing an old book described it as having chocolate scents, with vanilla and grass:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/that-old-book-smell-is-a-mix-of-grass-and-vanilla-710038/

Go figure.

Lol, leave it up to John to go research this thing…. I smell a new book in the making!

[Richard_Albert]

Ya mean like
“Foul and the Fragrant : Odor and the French Social Imagination”
By Alain Corbin

[Robert.A.Jr]

Ya mean like
“Foul and the Fragrant : Odor and the French Social Imagination”
By Alain Corbin

Sounds like something Antoine or Ogier from La Nausée would write. Prolly Antoine, as it sounds revolting.

[John_Kight]

Another reference doomed to go by the wayside.

Smells like a Kindle.

[John_Kight]

To me that sounds like TCA. Old books smell faintly moldy to me, like the damp cardboard of TCA.

But there are a lot of compounds found in old books:
What Causes "Old Book Smell"? | Mental Floss

And in one academic study in England, people sniffing an old book described it as having chocolate scents, with vanilla and grass:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/that-old-book-smell-is-a-mix-of-grass-and-vanilla-710038/

Go figure.

I actually think old books usually/typically smell dusty and musty, but NOT moldy.

[Cris_Whetstone]

I get what they are about with that term. It’s definitely something that would only be in wines that are squarely in a tertiary phase.

It would be more similar to old furniture than TCA. TCA is more distinct than just something that is old. In fact I don’t really associate the TCA characters with aged items. It’s more like musty or moldy which doesn’t really need much time to develop.

As mentioned above the number of people who understand and viscerally get the reference is rapidly diminishing.

[J_Rock]

I use it sometimes and don’t think it’s a bad note. To me it largely a kind of leather-related note (with whatever notes remind me of old books or library). It makes me think of older leather bound books, not some musty old paperback.

[Chris_Seiber]

Old furniture is a descriptor that occurs to me and which I use, usually in old wines at late maturity.

But like most wine descriptors, it’s not so much a literal description as an evocative term. Think about a little room in your grandparents’ house and the smell of the old furniture, that sense of well-worn age, and it has a similar feeling to that 1970s wine in your glass.

[John_Morris]

To me that sounds like TCA. Old books smell faintly moldy to me, like the damp cardboard of TCA.

But there are a lot of compounds found in old books:
What Causes "Old Book Smell"? | Mental Floss

And in one academic study in England, people sniffing an old book described it as having chocolate scents, with vanilla and grass:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/that-old-book-smell-is-a-mix-of-grass-and-vanilla-710038/

Go figure.

I actually think old books usually/typically smell dusty and musty, but NOT moldy.

must·y (mŭs′tē)
adj. must·i·er, must·i·est

1. Stale or moldy in odor or taste.

I think the mustiness of old books is partly molds.

In any event, the musty smell of books certainly seems similar to the wet cardboard you typically get with TCA, even if neither is the result of mold!

How the Brits in that study got chocolate, vanilla and grass from old books is beyond me.

[Arjan_Stavast]

[quote=“John Morris” post_id=3333951
How the Brits in that study got chocolate, vanilla and grass from old books is beyond me.
[/quote]

Funny, this is a descriptor I instantly get and for me the slight sweetness of vanilla and grass make quite a bit of sense. Even chocolate I can see fitting.

[John_Morris]

For old books?

[ChrisJames]

I posted a tasting note earlier for a 2005 Rochioli Pinot Noir Little Hill Vineyard. When I smelled the wine last night I thought I picked up on an aroma I would associate with old library books. I ended up using the descriptor leather instead. Have you smelled old library book in a wine? I asked the same question on Twitter and it had a negative connotation for many who assumed Brett or TCA when in actuality the wine was breathtaking. Have you something similar to old library book in a tasting note?

Thanks, Tom

I used the broader term of “used book store” (a what???) to describe rich, tertiary aromas that I get in well aged reds, especially nebbiolo, that would include stacks of books, worn leather chairs, and old hardwood floors. It is all warm, comforting, and entirely positive. I would not used this to describe brett, TCA, or some other flaw. Then again, I live on a farm, so go figure.

[Markus_S]

Not a flaw. Apparently, many of our responders here have never worked or been in an archive library and smelt Moroccan-bound slipcases or sewn bindings. There are particular smells associated with such a place, and - just like your home cellars - is climate and humidity controlled, so it will not smell damp or musty. If it does, that is a flaw, but not the pleasant smell of a bookbinder’s art!

[Steve_Costigan]

Old library book seems like an apropos term for something I often get in older wines that I call bottle funk. It often blows off either in part or completely with aeration. It has little to nothing in common with smell or taste of brett or TCA neither of which of course blow off. I agree it is not a flaw unless it persists and dominates, which is rare. Cheers.