Counselor, I considered putting Big Basin in my reply too, as I have experience with it but not enough recently. I plan to visit Bradley soon and taste with him, as I want to see where the journey for him is at currently. In sum, he was heading in a similar direction as KUTCH and RHYS’s model in the recent wines I have tasted from BB.
I agree with Mel that the Kutch wines have undergone a transformation on the oak treatment.
I’ve been a Williams-Selyem buyer (from the winery) since the 1987 vintage. The Williams-Selyem pinots from 1998 to 2004 were definitely not up to same quality standard as the Burt Williams’ wines, but from 2005 onward the wines were truly outstanding. Virtually every single vineyard wine produced from 2005 to 2010 is a definite counterpart for Rhys (sometimes the Westside Neighbors and Eastside Neighbors bottlings too). For reasons not clear, it took Bob Cabral a while to get it dialed in. Cabral left Williams-Selyem as winemaker a couple of years ago. I haven’t tasted many of the bottles beyond 2010 yet.
Copain and Littorai are in the ballpark.
I’m a fan of W-S Pinot, but I consider them to be somewhat bigger, riper in style.
Some shocking suggestions here, Jens.
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I was at the palatial winery for the first team this year, tasted a dozen or so wines, and I can say without hesitation that their current wines are nothing like Rhys. All were quite a bit riper than Rhys, and pretty typical Russian River Pinot.
Gotta agree with this. Jens, if you’re in the old world, why bother? I would kill to have access to a broader range of Burgundy at European prices, and never look back.
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Gotta go with my neighbors here in mid SoCal…Kutch, Big Basin and Arcadian. Only had one Tyler and found it a bit more robust and although enjoyable, it was just outside my zone.
I would actually consider Big Basin as close as any, particularly as a neighboring SCM producer. I wouldn’t be surprised if they age as well as some of their Rhys counterparts. I would bet Jamie’s wines might be on a similar aging trajectory as the others, but they have a different flavor profile since they’re from the Sonoma Coast rather than SCM or AV.
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I think this is the first time I’ve seen this WS evolution put into this context publicly. And I completely agree. Some head scratching wines were made by Bob Cabral in the early years of his tenure. There were some good wines to be sure, but volatile and unpleasant efforts were not uncommon. And starting with a good across the board line up of '05s, that seemed to change. As to the most recent wines, I had a '14 Ferrington last month that was excellent.
Mount Eden and Varner (or whatever they’re calling it now) are other Santa Cruz pinots that’ll please Old World palates, but Rhys is the best.
Some good suggestions here.
Clos Saron is another worth considering (and is available in Europe, or at least in the UK, so I assume in Europe). The need lots of air time to show well, but interesting/compelling Pinots with a savory dominant profile.
Also, note that the Varner’s aren’t making wine from their Santa Cruz Spring Ridge vineyard anymore. Unfortunately, the Neely’s pushed them out in a somewhat underhanded way. They are making some excellent wines from down south tho that are well worth checking out.
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I find this fascinating. I have never had a Rhys so have no basis for comparison to their wine. However, in reading through the suggestions I have tried at least nine of the suggestions. Assuming they all are similar in style and quality to Rhys, I would assume that I could consider them similar to each other as well. But for the wines I have tried that is not the case. Which of course leads to the question that if two wines are similar to a third wine (Rhys) should I expect those two wines to be similar to each other? Intuitively, I would think yes but maybe its more like spokes of a wheel where they are more closely related to the wine in the center than they are to each other.
First of all, thanks to all of you for your recommendations. Indeed, I’m surprised to read some suggestions. I’ve tried some of the wines listed here but imho they don’t even come close to the Rhys PNs. Especially for Williams-Selyem (tasted at least 10 wines from 2006 and up) I cannot see any comparison with Rhys as W-S is (at least imho) THE archetypal US pinot noir…nice wines, though.
The W-S I’ve tasted are big, bold fruit-driven wines and you can smell from 1m distance that this is new world PN.
Tasted Arcadian as well but with similar impressions.
@ Mel: I’m based in Germany. No Rhys here but I’ve sourced some in Switzerland and the UK…I’m not too worried about shipping costs…also the Rhys wines are more expensive here than in the US.
@ Rama: what are the “most shocking” ones for you? 
@ Alan: well, it took me decades to develop a distinct love for red Burgundy wines (the white Burgs have always been my favorite from day 1) and you need a good level of experience to understand and appreciate these wines. I do have a good amount of wine friends and we do wine dinners quite often…but we also have a lot of “normal” guests at home so I’m looking for some wines which I can still enjoy at dinner…but also my non-experienced guests. You cannot open a Chambolle-Musigny at a “non-wine-dinner”…and not even village-level wines because most (if not all) non-experienced guests cannot enjoy these wines. But I’m not willing to open a charming-easy-to-enjoy-Shiraz because I cannot enjoy these. Therefore I’m looking for the best compromise here…and I found Rhys to be a very solid one.
ok, it looks like I can get easily here:
Domaine de la Cote
Mount Eden
Eyrie
Littorai
Kutch
Hirsch
Will get some and make a tasting start with these. I’ll come back with my impressions.
Jens, OK, I understand your goal a little better. I confess that it’s a little surprising that you and your guests have found Rhys to fit the “easy drinking” and “easy to understand” style, as I have always found them to need age, and to be some of the more complex and more “difficult” California wines to understand (and I buy and cellar them for that reason).
I routinely enjoy nice village level red Burgs, and lower 1er Cru. Those are generally quite a bit cheaper where you are (or at least available elsewhere in Europe). I would have thought that getting your hands on Rhys would be quite a bit more expensive than wines of similar quality where you are. But if you’ve found Rhys to be a good solution, stick with it! ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
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My experience is very similar to Alan’s, and like him drink both CA & Burgundy Pinot.
So I’m curious - which red burgs do you find harder for guests to enjoy?
Highly recommended. Their trend is strongly continuing toward using more whole cluster, less new oak and picking earlier… you can taste the evolution from year to year for sure. His 14 wines are my favorite Big Basin wines so far… Looking forward to tasting the 15 pinots…
I have to admit, this notion of Burgundy being for the sophisticates, and pulling out the Rhys and Kutch for the plebeian company who can’t appreciate Burgundy, somehow it feels kind of like it belongs in this thread:
The thing about Rhys is that it is really one of a kind…vineyard approach and location, attempt to make wines under 13 degrees, whole cluster, barrel regimen.
Personally I see it as an intellectual’s wine, something I keep for myself and my fellow pseudo intellectuals, rather than something I would open for normal people.
The Burgundy approximation I see is de Montille.
Thanks to this thread, I bought my first bottle of Rhys. I’ll let you all know if I understand it or not.
Cronin, although the last vintage was 2000.