Understanding Italian Regions

WINE TALK
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Outside of wine, I’d strongly recommend the book ‘Italy for the Gourmet Traveller’ by Fred Plotkin.

Oddly, not for the food recommendations, as whilst it’s a decent selection, there are too many resting on faded laurels, and too much of a focus on the easy, central places. The Golosario is the annual publication that is much more thorough.

However… I think his descriptions of regions and locations in those regions are superb. They’ve really helped me in shaping holidays, finding the variety I seek, and finding bases that really suit.

Now to the wines. Many of those you list are top names. Prestigious wines, but they can be atypical. For sure, when selecting wines to bring home, I see the logic of cherry picking for the limited luggage space. However whilst there, I think you’d be missing out if you just drink the most prestigious wines of the region. Instead, understanding the local food / wine culture happens best when pursuing the ‘typical’. e.g. real Lambrusco with cured meats and maybe some hard cheese, shows one of the great food/wine matches, lifting a somewhat rustic wine, whilst also elevating the food.

Is it those regions that you listed, that you are visiting. If so, I’d say it’s absolutely right to focus on them. Drinking local often (but far from always) means better food matches, plus you’ll enjoy the smile you get when you choose an interesting, but not famous wine from the region (e.g. I can still recall the happy surprise from the person at the shop when buying a Freisa di Chieri and a Vespolina from Ghemme).

Mariano’s suggestion of Foradori absolutely fits the low intervention preference. Natural and organic, without trumpeting those credentials, plus the only winery I’ve visited that included their composting in the tour of the winery (and very neat it was too).

For Tuscany, I’d focus on where you are staying, e.g. Chianti, Montepulciano, etc. but if it’s Firenze, then the whole region is fair game.

For Emilia-Romagna, I’m a huge fan of those taking Sangiovese seriously, with Predappio a nice little hotspot (Drei Dona and Chiara Condello). Also the amazing social venture that is San Patrignano. Not the very best wines, but the very best in humanity.

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Two of my favorite producers that haven’t yet been mentioned are Candialle (Chianti) and Colombera & Garella (Alto Piemonte). The former is actually easier to find abroad than in Italy.

Aged ArPePe and Emidio Pepe can be amazing experiences.

Someone mentioned Dirupi, I’ve heard a lot about the producer but haven’t tried it yet. It does sound like one to track down. Pizzo Coca is another Valtellina producer I’ve liked a lot.

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These two are excellent, although C & G was already mentioned above.

Disagree; Burlotto makes also some excellent Pelaverga and Freisa bottlings that are always worth checking out!

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This thread has great vibes.

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Expected someone would disagree! With the exception of the nebbiolos my sample size is limited to 1-2 intages depending on the bottling.

The Pelaverga I tried didn’t agree with me, thought I would love it. Can’t remember the vintage but I won’t rule out giving it a try again. Rather I will as I have a bottle or two still. Same with Freisa, and I really like the variety.

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Definitely good advice(s). In Italy and a few other countries some of the nicest dining/cultural moments have been to eat at more humbler country side places with terrific local ingredients, quite often very simple and drink local fresh wines. Probably farmed by the themselves or a neighbor. Carafe filled up directly from the barrel, inox or similar.

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Another thought (this time with no particular names). If you’re ordering wine in restaurants, you are limited by their list. In top/fancy places you’ll see the kinds of names listed here. But in many restaurants you just won’t. Outside of the major regions/big cities the restaurants will likely be very strong on local options, often with zero names from this thread.

This is the biggest challenge with getting to know the non Tuscan/Piemonte wines of Italy. Nothing recognizable on a list, what to order? Picking randomly is not a good strategy, as there is a vast quantity of weak, poorly made wines (indeed everywhere in the world). I usually ask for advice from the waiter, but that’s only barely reliable. Or order the most expensive wine on the list.

I’m curious what others here do in these situations. Or maybe those non-amazing wines ARE representative of the region/varietal and should be part of the exploration?

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Tuscany - Bolgheri - I’d throw out a recommendation for Grattamacco and Le Macchiole. One classic Bolgheri Superiore and one more modern/boutique with Syrah/Merlot/Cab Franc leading the blends.

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Okay, you’re wrong :smiley:. At least with Conterno (if you’re referring to the Roberto Conterno wines…there are other Conternos). I’m always surprised at the love for these wines considering the wines are much bigger, riper and new world in style compared to his father’s wines. I wouldn’t buy them at 1/3 the price. His Nervi reds are made in the same overdone style compared to the previous owners.

I also don’t love Vietti and Vajra as much, and don’t have enough experience with newer Sandrone, Cogno and Grasso wines, but didn’t like their modern style wines for years.

I would also add somewhere in the heirarchy: La Ca Nova, Poderi Colla, Marcarini, Fenocchio, and Castello di Verduno.

And if you’re talking all of Piedmont as opposed to just Barolo and Barbaresco you left out Colombera & Garella, Ferrando, Le Piane, Cantalupo and Sperino from the North.

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The last two I tasted were 2017 Francia and 2019 Monfortino, and they were both top wines of those trips, respectively. The prices are too high for me to buy versus other options, however.

2016 Vietti Rocche is a phenomenal wine. Let’s check on some of the Ravera I own when you visit NYC. Some of the others are modern, and Luca isn’t there anymore - maybe this should be dropped!

Agree that Vajra is generally overhyped, but I think they are some of the best QPR in Piedmont at the moment.

I was at Chambers tasting of Sandrone a few years back, I think of 2013s. Even Jamie was surprised how Sandrone had pulled back modernism and was more classic. I haven’t tried the 2016s I own yet (the only other wines I have of theirs).

Cogno seems to be volatile these days, but IMHO, on clear upslope. The Pernice is my favorite wine. I think the quality started ticking up in the 2014 vintage. Was very excited to try 2019, but sounds like he started playing with whole cluster with imperfect effects for the first vintage. Definitely looking forward to trying his 2021s.

Grasso was a debate for me to include at the time, and perhaps I should have dropped. The wines are probably too big/high alc, and could dial back oak a little bit more. But I would still put them over some of the other producers you mentioned.

I had a lovely 2019 Poderi Colla last year, made me want to reallly go back and try more. But there is literally so much wine out there (and I own too much!)

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What Owen said. Cappellano, Giuseppe Rinaldi, Bartolo Mascarello, GB Burlotto are very expensive.

There are so many great wineries producing great wines at more reasonable prices. I would highly recommend trying Vajra Bricco delle Viole AND Baudana single vineyard Barolos (Cerretta and Baudana). The winemaking is virtually identical, so the huge difference in terroir from Barolo and Serralunga, resp., really shows through.

Others that are low-intervention and won’t break the bank include: Trediberri Berri or Rocche dell Annunziata, Chiara Boschis wines, Cascina Baricchi Barbaresco Rosé delle Casasse Riserva, Elvio Cogno Barolo Ravera, Poderi Colla Barbaresco Roncaglie and Barolo Dardi Le Rose Bussia, Cascina delle Rose Barbaresco Tre Stelle and Rio Sordo, Alessandro e Gian Natale Fantino Barolo Bussia Cascina Dardi, Francesco Rinaldi Barolos, and Elio Sandri Barolos.

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If I understood correctly, these are exactly those kinds of wines Mads was NOT looking for - as Mikael put it, glossy Super-Tuscans are not for him.

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Mads,

Burlotto has earned his place at the top of the table, and yet interestingly 15 years ago the wider wine world hardly knew that the Monvigliero vineyard existed, or paid much attention to the commune of Verduno in Barolo where Burlotto is based. They are fantastic wines based off of my limited experience, and I think you could argue they are singular as well. I have other musings about what sort of value should be attached to a wine being “singular,” but I’ll save that for later, lol.

As for Trediberri, I think they are viewed as more modern simply because they are a young group! With the timestamp of when that project has started they couldn’t be defined as anything but modern because they are here, now, and a contemporary step in the development of Barolo. That doesn’t really say anything about their wines stylistically, which are generally viewed as very good and not that far from the norms of Barolo winemaking, with room to grow.

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Thank you sir, and totally agree on the Vajra Bricco delle Viole vs Luigi Baudana dichotomy! Very interesting to see them side-by-side.

+1 for Cascina delle Rose!
And for La Ca Nova.

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In Italy, my knowledge is pretty strong in many regions, though I recall being more in the dark on a trip to Puglia. Fortunately we struck very lucky, including a primitivo with some age on it in the agriturismo we were staying in. €6 was a supreme bargain. I wish I’d noted down who the producer was!

I’m very wary of using the crutch of wine critics, but if blindly heading into a region, I’ve been known to seek ideas from Hugh Johnson’s pocket guide. It’s far from perfect, but typically gives you some established names, plus maybe something more interesting / up and coming depending on the person they engaged for that section, Plenty of good names will be missing, and some listed might be resting on laurels too much. i.e. it’s a useful ‘throw a few names into the mix’ guide.

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Immaculate vibes in here!

@Mikael_OB Great list! Yes Skerk and Terpin also produce some amazing stuff. The Terrano(Teran) cuvee from Skerk is another good example of someone that does something very good with a local grape.

@Keith_B2 As Ottos says, the blending and more polished style is not so much my taste, but I appreciate your recommendation.

@Marshall_Manning This is bordering to nerdy. I like it. For me to drink Monfortino right now to get to ‘get a hint’ about the region would be like ordering La Tache because i’ve heard about this ‘burgundy’ place.

@R_Frankel Exactly that too!

@Ken_V Thanks! Cappellano and Rinaldi has always been in the binoculars.

@OwenJ Alright. I was referring to the winemaking especially. Have only had a few cuvees but the style seemed less extracted than what I knew and somewhat lighter.

@Ian_Sutton Thanks for the recommendation!

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37

It’s an interesting question.

I have a decent understanding of Italian wines which makes a big difference but what I normally would do is to try to “read” the wine list (for any place). Is it a list with mainly brands and names or winemakers that requires some dedication to put on the list?

It’s been too long since I properly visited Italy but I kind of categorize the winelists into three broad directions:

  1. Fancy to impress and brands - you find brands and many of them (not expensive necessarily)
  2. The owner (usually) loves wines and have a terrific list of wines that mostly have quite special wines (doesn’t mean expensive) but a good mix of them. Domestic, local and/or including other countries.
  3. Local simpler list (nothing wow but often fine).

If in a place with the direction 2 - most everything will be good. Based on one’s own taste preference and the food a conversation with the waiter can be successful.

When I find myself in the last category, quite often the simplest fresh option is my choice and often a very good wine/food experience. Like what Ian mentioned upthread…

More than a decade ago in Verona, I got a restaurant recommendation and strong tip to not order a bottle from the menu,”go for the house wine” was really good and worked perfectly with the food.

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Hi Mads
Do you know which regions you’ll be visiting?

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Hi Ian

Venice for sure and then possibly a resort town on the Amalfi coast. Hence my question and wonder, because for both regions I know next to nothing, in terms of their wine production.

What I’ll do now is that I’ll read CT notes, general info and then make a shortlist of producers I’d like to try. The rest will serve as a reference list should I sit with an obscure list somewhere.

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Cool.

It’s a heck of a long transfer, but absolutely doable as there’s a direct train to either Napoli, or perhaps more chilled to get off at Salerno (a place with surprising charm for what ought to be a humdrum small port city). From Salerno the SITA buses connect to the towns along the coast, though the ferry is an option as well. I know this as I have a relative considering almost exactly that same transfer! I love the the trains in Italy, and booking in advance / watching for great deals, can give stupidly cheap prices, such that we used to intentionally aim for a day trip on a ‘Freccia’ (Or ES* in the old days), upgrading to 1st class for a modest extra amount. It felt like an event in itself, and on longer legs (such as yours), a careful curation of a picnic (and some wine) can make it a very pleasant experience indeed.

For Veneto, the wines of Vapolicella (including Amarone) and Soave are the main focus, but there are other areas as well. One producer making interesting natural wines is Angiolino Maule / La Biancara, with their Rosso Masieri a wine I’d personally recommend.

For Soave, Otto has superb insight and I recall him listing a few on a previous thread. For me Gini stand out, but Inama really impressive as well. Pieropan respected for their at times solitary efforts to repair the reputation of Soave, but I prefer the other two I mentioned.

For Valpolicella, there are plenty of good choices, though plenty still dull. Quintarelli is always fully priced (and some), but is a very special producer. For me Roccolo Grassi impressed greatly, with something of a steely determination, and refreshing honesty e.g. despite their Soave being very good, they talked it down on the basis it wasn’t the best vineyard, limiting their ambitions. For recioto della Valpolicella, Marco Mosconi was stunning, though it’s not too easy to find a bottle. Plenty of others to explore.

For amalfi coast, the very local wines are often good simple food wines, but Marisa Cuomo / Gran Furor based in Furore are a distinct cut above the rest, with both reds and whites of genuine interest. Sadly the wonderful little wine bar hidden away in an old monastery in Amalfi has gone. It was a lovely place to explore wines in a cool setting, and hidden enough that it didn’t suffer from too many tourists making it there.

I wasn’t so impressed by the bottle of Montevetrano (nr Salerno) I tried, which seemed too international for my tastes, but for sure it was a good wine. Paestum an interesting hot spot of quality, that’s worth trying as well.

Venturing further afield, the Campanian whites are well worth exploring, including the wines of Ischia. Plenty of vibrancy in the region.

Then there’s the jewel in the crown, the Aglianicos that go by the DOCG Taurasi. Plenty of great producers and great wines, although the pricing can seem a little OTT for some. Mastroberardino are probably the equivalent of Pieropan (mentioned under Veneto) for flying the flag through dark times, but for me they still remain solid value and interest, though having read Otto’s notes on the Villa dei Mistieri wines (made in Pompeii itself), the value seems to be in the story, not the wines. I like their Radici and Radici riserva Taurasi a lot, but was surprised how much I also enjoyed their Naturalis Historia, a wine that sounded like it might be a little too ‘worked’, but instead I found lovely structure and balance.

Plenty more to explore outside of these, but trying a few different ones will help lead you towards the wines that suit your preferences.

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