Understanding Burgundy - or trying to.

WINE TALK
1

So as many of you know, I was curious as to what people mean when they refer to a new world Pinot Noir as “Burgundian”. Serge very kindly sent me two examples of 2005 Burgundy to compare.

I opened both bottles on Saturday night. Tried them over about 2-3 hours, then corked and refrigerated, and finished them both on Sunday.

2005 Maison Patrice Rion Gevrey-Chambertin Vieilles Vignes
I’d expected a lighter colour; this was fairly typical of Santa Cruz Mountains Pinot.
The nose was initially earthy yet savoury, with some cherry fruit - Ali called it “rustic”.
First impression was of unusually high acidity, as well as some orange pith bitterness.
After that it seemed herbal, with some cherry and cranberry fruit, but not a lot. The finish was earthy. Overall it seemed lightweight with fine tannins.

After an hour or two the nose started showing a distinct orange quality that reminded me of Grand Marnier. There was a hint of lime too, which made me think of Margaritas.
By now there were distinct cherry and orange notes, with herbs and chalk. Much longer finish. Greatly improved since first opening.

On day two it seemed to have developed a much richer and thicker mouthfeel. The nose seemed less pronounced, earthy and savoury again. Some herbal, cherry fruit. By the end of the bottle the Grand Marnier note had returned again.

2005 Antonin Guyon Gevrey-Chambertin Domaine de la Guyonnière

Initially this had a really bretty, earthy nose. Savoury elements came forward with time.
Started out with sweeter fruit - again, cherry and. cranberry. Mouth-wateringly tart and tannic finish; earth and fruit.

After an hour the nose was showing soy sauce and meat. The fruit had started to dry up a little, showing more tannin and earth.

Came back to it after tasting the first. The nose was still earthy and bretty, but the fruit was showing again - cherry, cranberry and redcurrant. The tannins were chewier, the finish long and dry.

On day 2 the nose was showing real barnyard character. It seemed lighter in weight, though maybe that was just relative to the Rion. Not as much fruit.

Preference? On day 1 I’d have gone for the Guyon; on the Day 2 showing I’d take the Rion. I’d score them both somewhere around 88-90 points, which to me means I’d buy them if the price was right.

So in conclusion, what does “Burgundian” mean? If these examples are typical it means high acidity, an emphasis on savoury and earthy flavours (with or without brett), restrained fruit, oak that isn’t obtrusive. The kind of wines that Duane Cronin made, and that Woodside and McHenry are making today.

2

Hello Dave,

That strikes me as a pretty fair description of a lot of Burgundies; well analysed that man!

I should add that these days Brett in Burgundy is generally considered as a fault; decent wine-makers strive to avoid it so you should not find it so often in wines from quality producers. Earthy characters are to be approved of in Burgundy whereas Brett shittiness in a wine tells you that you should not be buying from that producer again.

Thanks for the thoughtful notes on these two wines. Will you buy more Burgundy in future?

Cheers,
David.

3

Sounds like a good pair of Burgs. Personally, I think “Burgundian” has become a bit of a lazy term for domestic PN which featues more acidic and/or earthy qualities than bigger, more modern styles.

Burgundy can be ultimately one of the most rewarding, but maddening regions around for red wine. Serge did you a solid by sending you some nice examples as you can spend a lot of time and money on frustration.

4

Be aware that aged Burgundy is going to be an utterly different beast than what you are drinking now. It is only with some maturity (which doesn’t have to take that long, depending on the Burg) that they acquire their deliciously intense and savory elements that serve as a backbone to the earthy, spicy, fruity notes you are seeing now. Not to say that Burgundy isn’t good young, lots of it is delicious. But you must get your hands on some aged stuff before making any sort of decision.

(Serge, send him some of your “special” stash. [wink.gif])

5

We’ll have to see. I certainly wouldn’t rule it out.
I still intend to try that Ile Des Verglesses some time.

The way I approach most wines is to taste first, then buy if the price seems right.
However the entry price for Burgundy would appear to be in the $30-$50 range,
notwithstanding what the $100+ advocates in the other thread say.
For that money I can get Varner, Rhys, Windy Oaks, Mount Eden and McHenry,
top local producers and in most years no-brainer purchases.

Interestingly there’s a Burg tasting at The Jug Shop in SF tomorrow.
I’ll have to see whether Ali is playing tennis and if not maybe I can go.

6

Hello Nick,

Good point well made. There is a lot of fun to be had drinking really young Burgundy (and it does have to be really young as Burgundy does close up for an awkward middle age period), but if you have a good vintage of a good vineyard from a good producer that stuff will often just beg to be stashed in the cellar. Doesn’t have to be forever in the cellar, some mature quickly; I drank most of my 1997s when about 5 years old and they were totally lovely. Aged red Burgundy is a deep and pulsing experience that just throbs with beauty and charm. flirtysmile

Nick, if you are offering on Serge’s behalf for him to send some wines how about some 2000s? A forward, pleasant vintage (I know some people hate all wines from this vintage, sure there is dross, but also plenty of goodies) that, from the right people, has been providing a lot of happy times in recent years. They are generally perfectly mature now and just heading into the ‘drink soon’ window, so drink some!

Cheers,
David.

7

David T - excellent notes. One thing- you don’t need to spend quite that much every time - I’ve had excellent bourgogne from d’Ardhuy, Roty and others for about $20. Even if you’re in the same price range as Rhys, Windy Oaks, etc. , I’d encourage you to drink some burgundies too - they are comparable but distinct pleasures from even the CA stuff that sometimes draw comparisons to burgs.

David S - funny you should mention the 2000s, I just wrote the following tasting note that coincidentally encapsulates some of what I feel goes into my definition of “Burgundian”:

  • 2000 Bouchard Père et Fils Vosne-Romanée - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Vosne-Romanée (2/8/2010)
    Floral notes, red fruits, herbs, sous bois and a hint of citrusy acidity tickle the nose. On the palate, orange-clementine acidity puckers the mouth, and the tannins occasionally come off as slightly bitter if you really think about it. However, sweet fruit lingers on the finish, making up for any roughness around the edges that this wine has. On the whole, this wine pleases me admirably - it’s not exceptional by any means, but it shows well considering that it’s a village wine, from an unheralded vintage, and even more so because I paid a bourgogne price for it. Pretty color, light on the palate, unobtrusive alcohol level. Just a perfect example of why I find red burgundy to be so lovely - even a merely competent example can be so charming. 88 points on the merits, but I’m enjoying it like it’s a 91 tonight; a whole that’s more than the sum of its parts. (88 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

8

Thanks for the followup notes Dave. Those both sound fairly typical, but as I said in the other thread, wines vary a LOT from Burgundy - Volnays are very different from Vosnes even if made by similar methods. If you’re interested, I’d grab 6-12 bottles from different communes and keep it under $40 per. That STILL won’t get you a serious survey of Burgundy - you’d need dozens of bottles to do that - but it will get you some nice stuff.

FWIW I think there are some very good Cali Pinots made in more restrained styles. The issue for me is that I don’t know them and do know Burgundy.

9

Hello Alan,

Sounds lovely and all you could really ask from this vintage at this quality level. It is so pleasing when you pop a wine from a less than stellar vintage or producer which turns out to deliver the pleasure-goods by the bucket load. Ah mature Burgundy, what a sweet, sweet pleasure it is.
flirtysmile

Thanks for the note, and keep drinking that quality Burgundy!

Cheers,
David.

10

2000 is drinking well now. I popped a Lamarche Echezeaux last week that was just entering its window (but probably still would have been better in 5 more years)…

11

Hello Serge,

There are some wines where Brett can work quite well; I’m largely thinking of Bandol here, but some Chateauneufs can show it in a not unattractive style. You just have the risk of massive bottle variation if you go for Bretty wines. And, to be honest, when Brett character becomes really shitty/arseholey it is not terribly appealing. So, Brett in some wines: OK. Brett in Burgundy: Not in mine, please. [wink.gif]

Cheers,
David.

12

Hello again Serge,

Oh absolutely! De gustibus est non disputandum and all that. Moreover, it is good for people to like many different things; if everyone just wanted Roumier Bonnes-Mares then my tiny allocation would get smaller and more expensive.

What a fine organ the Daily Mail is…

Cheers,
David.

13

I agree that the “B word” (as I call it) gets tossed around way too much.

I think there are 3 things that separate Burgundy.

  1. Sappiness- You just can’t really get this elsewhere. I live for wines of great sappiness.
  2. Vineyard distinction IN THE GLASS- Not just on the label, but IN THE GLASS. So many vineyards have their own identity, and even with a heavy-handed producer, it’s still tough to beat that quality out of the wine.
  3. Longevity- Most Burgundies don’t hit a stride until at least 10 years. I have found most other Pinots do best within the first 10 years (yes, there are exceptions, but that number is FAR smaller than Burgundy).

Talking about higher acidity and earthy notes and calling it Burgundian is a tough call. Pinot from Italy, Germany, Alsace, or even Hungary generally have this quality too. You never hear any one say “hey, you know this Chehalem Pinot Noir is very Trentino in style.”

14

Wait a minute – I know you are ITB and probably widely experienced but “you can’t get this elsewhere”?? I look for all of the above in my Nebbiolo based wines, Barolo and Barbaresco. They have sappiness in spades, more than I have ever really experienced in red Burgundy. And they are amazingly long-lived, and great at showing terroir.

I love Burgundy too but I have always seen the similarities between Piedmont and Burgundy.

15

Some good thoughts above, but one thing that hasn’t been touched on which I think is a big part of what makes a wine Burgundian is its size and figure. A good Burgundy can have proportions that are lean, even waifish, that would make pretty much any other wine in the world seem emaciated. But the same proportions in a Burgundy can still give you the impression that any more stuffing would work to its detriment, as excess fat or coloring outside the lines.

16

Sorry, should have clarified- In Pinot. Totally agree with you on the Nebb part.

17

Purity. One of Hugh Johnson’s great sayings: “Burgundy is pure or it is nothing.”

(Although his all-time best, I think, is “Whoever said Musigny is a feminine wine was a great admirer of women.”)

18

I checked wine-searcher for your area and the Rion seems to be available for (less than) $50. Couldn’t find the exact wine you had from Guyon, but their vllages Gevrey retails for around $40. As far as the $100+ advocates in the other thread I think there was only one and he is an obvious troll.

The main difference for me is how these wines will age, which requires patience but can be very rewarding. Of course being able to enjoy wines within 3 years of release also has its upside, but it’s generally not what Burgundy is about.

19

Dave’s struggle to see the essence of Burgundy takes me back…

I think that when you read what people write about Burgundy, you almost have to expect something along the lines of Ruby Port. Rich, dark, intriguing stuff.

It is very hard to describe what Burgundy really is. It is easy to become incomprehensible when trying to put it into words. Now that I know what Ian meant I think he is very accurately drawing a line between the often fruity and ephemeral Pinot Noirs produced in America versus the stuff from the Côte d’Or.

It is worth bearing in mind that in the worst years, you get a kind of cabbage juice, slightly sweetened and pinkish. Not much fun to drink. Thin and stinky. Sunshine is everything and some years they don’t get enough. PN from California is never like that.

Even the good wines in the good years have what I would call a “thin texture” compared to Cabernet based wines. The beauty is there but in some ways you have to know how to find it.

“Sideways” is not my favorite movie but I do like it when Miles is talking about how difficult it is to make Pinot Noir based wines. I believe it…

20

Mature, great Burgundy from a great year, pretty much everyone likes. Decent village level Burgundy from a middling year is enjoyable and interesting to a burg-lover, but may not have broad appeal especially to New World palates. Also, as David mentioned, it tends to shut down not long after release. So, lots of people try a few and wonder what all the fuss is about.

-Al