I’ve had a bunch of wines from Cave de Tain over the years, and while they’ve made some decent wines, I think they’re far from the top of their region, let alone in the whole world or even in France. Often they’ve been a bit heavily oaked and polished for my palate.
In my books Ca de Tain is still quite far behind producers like PdB, Terlan or Wachau, which - at least to me - produce truly world-class wines that are not just among some of the best in their region, but are also able to age like crazy.
I’ve never been particularly impressed by any Champagne co-op wines (not that I’ve done extensive research on the subject), but I do agree that Mailly makes quite a decent fizz. Definitely among some of the best Champagne co-ops.
I haven’t had any wines from that Bad Durkheim co-op. I’ve tasted some other German co-op wines though, and I think that these these German co-ops tend to make wines that can be crazy good value, but basically that’s because the wines are pretty nice and they usually cost nothing more than a few pennies, relatively speaking. However, I can’t remember ever tasting a German co-op wine I would’ve described as a “world-class wine”. They’ve all been just nice, simple everyday wines.
A name I’ve never seen, but might want to try if I ever see a bottle.
I love Vietti Perbacco, but it is a bigger, riper style than PdB. I don’t remember noting any overt oak in the past few years, although sometimes I miss that. Also, on the Produttori Langhe Nebbiolo, it’s really nice in great vintages, but other vintages tend to underwhelm me, even given the price.
The wines that I think are most comparable to Produttori’s in terms of style and value are the Barbaresco and Barbaresco Santo Stefano from Castello di Neive. These are seriously underappreciated and worth seeking out, IMO.
I also agree that this is, for me, the #1 co-op in the world, with Terlan a close second.
In terms of coops, Carema is solid as well. Not up to PdB at all, IMO, but a producer worth mention.
Some other excellent Langhe wines that can be found in and around the price point you mention which ahve not yet been suggested include Trediberri Barolo, Fratelli Alessandria (entry level Barolo, but the LN is very good as well), Elio Grasso LN, Ca’ Nova Barbaresco and single vineyards, Azelia Barolo.
I concur. I really don’t see why people never fail to mention this one when talking about Langhe Nebbiolos. When it’s good, it’s - as you said - really nice, but many times it has been rather meh. You can really taste how they have to use all the fruit they purchase in some wine, and not all the vintages are producing just fruit of great quality.
I guess their middling Langhe Nebbiolo is the reason why their other wines are so good!
I’ve loved some of their older vintages, but I tasted 2011 Santo Stefano some years ago, and I was surprised how it was so super toasty and heavily oak-driven. Definitely not comparable to Produttori in terms of style. They’ve been quite reasonably priced, though.
Hey, this is WB after all!
Definitely, odd for me to forget listing this name - I have even visited the cantina! They might not make super impressive Nebbiolos, but PdC is still one of my fave co-ops and definitely among the best I’ve tasted in Piemonte (probably number two after PdB).
Not the regular, but it appears that all of my 2013 Riservas are damaged. I tried a Pora that was clearly affected, so then I tried an Ovello with the same results. Another bottle of Ovello I got through the second source was also very advanced. Since then a Montestefano and an Asilli both badly advanced. Two different retailers in two different states with two different distribution channels, so I can only surmise that something happened on the way to the US from Italy.
Have had a bottle each of 2012/2013s without any oxidation issues (in Europe), have however had bad luck with corked bottles for the LN in more recent vintages.
La Ca Nova is the obvious suggestion, but the wines are quite different than Produttori. Compared to the base Produttori, the La Ca Nova single vineyards are only a bit more expensive, but are both much more complex and I’d say a bit more rustic in their flavor and tannin profile. They are wines that need time in the cellar, whereas often the Produttori blended bottling drinks well out of the gate. But La Ca Nova is great, even if I think Galloni’s scores are way too high and I think that sets people up for disappointment (plus, I think given how cheap they are, people buy them to drink now vs. seeing them as a bottle that deserves 5-10+ years of cellaring).
The base Barolo from Vietti, the Castiglione, is also a great pick around $45-50, and it tends to be bright, red fruited, and approachable. The 2020 Perbacco from Vietti for ~$25 is also outstanding.
I’m with those who say “older Produttori”. I picked up a couple of '08s at auction (the Rabaja and the Asili) and they were in a nice drinking window. If you can find them, I think you’ll find that the prices are reasonable.
One TN is worth 1000 other words. Here is mine from 2012. I agree that with age comes greatness.
1989 Produttori del Barbaresco Barbaresco Riserva Rabajà - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barbaresco (6/16/2012)
An exceptional wine. In the running for wine of the year. I walked into the private room for Ron and Serge's birthday parties and my eyes were immediately drawn to a magnum of this on one of the tables. I had an older version of this wine from Ken V at a Berserkerfest that I rated 98, so just seeing this bottle on the table let me know that there was great wine available. Popped and poured, which did not do it justice, but the wine certainly did not disappoint. Mushrooms, forest floor, bright black and red fruit. Cherry, plum and blackberry. A very noticeable cedar component that went along with the forest floor. Earthy power on the back of the palate to complement the sweetness of the fruit on the front. There was no creosote/road tar. A great effort. (97 points)
This 89’ PdB Rabaja was actually my first PdB wine, sourced from RareWineCo about 7-8 years ago. The wine was in perfect shape and it was the perfume that left the last impression. I’ve been buying Rabaja ever since…