Just opened a 2022 Trapet G-C Ostrea and like what I’m tasting. The grand crus are a little out of my price range, but if I’m looking at recent vintages (2019, 2022 mostly, maybe 2023) to grab some village or 1er crus any that stand out?
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I’d probably try 19, but don’t have any experience with any cuvées besides the Chambertin.
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As others have said, they are different producers. They have some closely related holdings, since the holdings were divided some time ago.
I recently had the opportunity to taste through most, or all, of the 2023 Gevrey Chambertin wines from both Rossignol-Trapet and Trapet. All of the wines from both houses were good or excellent. The people at both were very kind, warm, generous, and funny.
To my mind, Jasper Morris’s tasting notes seem quite true and resonate with me, especially if I leave aside the scores for my own personal preferences.
From my limited understanding, the farming is different between the two, even as both are quite progressive. Trapet has moved some portion to be trained higher, more vertical, than other trellising systems. It seems to require more handwork in the vineyard, which also seems to be a desired attribute. I saw some trees planted in one their vineyards, indicating a move to agro-forestry, something the Bruno Clair domain is embracing as well. I can’t speak to the Rossignol-Trapet farming aside from the fact that they’ve been biodynamic since 2004 (starting the process in the 1990s). I am no expert, to be clear, so take that all with a grain of salt.
The more interesting potential for comparison is their holdings. For example, each makes a Chambertin, a Latricières-Chambertin, a Chapelle and Petit Chapelle, etc.
I would caution against a strict ranking for someone who hasn’t tasted wines from both. They are somewhat different stylistically and there’s a risk that ranking could squash some nuance. As always. I would welcome both on my table and in my cellar.
As far as the villages and 1ers are concerned, there was a lot to like. At Trapet, I particularly enjoyed Trapet’s 1859 cuvée, the 1er En Ergot for the lift, and 1er Clos Prieur for the concentration. Of Rossignol-Trapet’s, the 1er Combottes was a gentler expression and I liked the Petite Chapelle and its long driving acidity a lot.
The Chambertins are very fine at both places. I think it’s a matter of personal preference. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the marketplace may not align fully with my palate here.
My personal favorite wines at both producers was the Latricières-Chambertin. Another pleasant surprise.
As for the Rousseau comparisons, that’s much tougher for me to make claims about. The Rousseau wines are notably different stylistically. As beautiful as they are, I don’t find a strict comparison between them particularly instructive for me personally. Not saying it can’t be useful for others, but it doesn’t seem like a useful yardstick for people who haven’t been exposed to them. Even for the Chambertin.
Taste what you can, and good luck.
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I am not sure if it is clear from this thread to people that do not know the estates that well but this was all one estate for a long time. It was split around 1990 between the families of a son (Trapet) and a daughter (Rossignol-Trapet). That is why the holdings are so similar.
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Yeah 1990 was the first vintages when the wines were produced separately. We opened the 1990 trapet chambertin a couple years ago but it was unfortunately past its prime.
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Here is a post comparing 15 Trapet Chambertin vs. 15 Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin.
The short version (imho) was that the Trapet-Rossignol was a delicious and approachable glass, but the Trapet was the better wine, at least in terms of its potential.
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Sorry to bump this old thread, but I’m down a Burgundy rabbit hole. I was under the impression Burgundy takes quite a long while to come around. Are you saying that isn’t the case? Just trying to understand the comment
Modern burgundy is ready to drink earlier than in the past.
We’re doing a horizontal of 2017 trapet, rossignol trapet, and Rousseau chambertin this year and I expect it’ll drink well.
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depends on the vintage, storage conditions, producer…and most importantly, preference.
i generally prefer to drink my 1ers with 10-15 years of age and my grand crus with ~20 years of age.
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A lot depends on the producer, but yes I love red Burgundy with a lot of age. Had some 9-11 year old Burgs last night and while they were quite drinkable and interesting to taste, not a one of them was really mature. [Our wine group often does about 10 year old or so Burgs about once a year to check in on some and see how they are doing. For this, last night was really interesting. There were a few wines that I have in my cellar that others brought (for example 2016 Ramonet CM Boudriotte) that seemed pretty promising and last night told me that holding off on these for a few more years is the way to go.]
When we are specifically talking about Rossignol-Trapet Chambertin, they really take a long time to mature. The 1999 is a fabulous wine, but it is not yet fully mature (understand, in general, 1999 is just a fabulous vintage for Burgundy). While the 2001 Latricieres Chambertin is fully mature right now and drinking really well, the last time I had a 2001 Chambertin (about 2-3 years ago), it was not yet mature.
As in all types of wines, different people like wines at different ages. If you like fruit more than complexity, yes drink your Burgundies young. I don’t see the point of this however for better Burgundies. You can get the same (or more) fruit at a lower price point from US pinot noir. To me, what makes higher appellation Burgundy special is what happens to the wines after 20-30 years of age.
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This is more true for older burgs in my experience.
Newer burgundy drinks better earlier. While the wines will likely improve and get better with time, they’re definitely more accessible early than they once were. We just did a dinner with 19 Roumier bonnes mares and the 17 and 21 were actually drinking well, in many cases better than wines 15+
years older. I have no doubt they’ll be better in 20 years as well, but to me we didn’t see a lot of tertiary complexity in the wines made after 1989 and I’m not sure a lot of people want to wait 36 years.
Appreciate all the responses here. Very helpful
The thing you have to realize that a lot of the people telling you not to drink grand crus young… haven’t drank many grand crus young.
I drink a lot of burgundies of all ages. Certainly the wines can appreciate with time, but in my opinion you have to try them at all stages of their life cycle to really understand them.
I can only afford so many of these things, so opening them early seems fraught with peril. I do hate waiting on wines though, so /shrug
I had asked about Mortet several months back and you had chimed in and said you preferred Trapet. That’s how I got down this rabbit hole. I was foolishly looking at the Chambertin lol
I am not sure what to say. I have had hundreds of bottles of Burgundy made after 1989 that have developed like classic Burgundies should.
If you want to drink 5-year old Bonnes Mares, that is up to you. I cannot see doing that myself. But obviously we have vastly different palates and are looking for vastly different things from a bottle of wine.
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21 Roumier BM was great. I’ll continue to open bottles from the case I have over the next 20-25 years. Due to the nature of the vintage I’m not sure it’ll shut down, but I guess we’ll see. We had three 21 Echézeaux last weekend as well that were also great.
The best wine from that roumier tasting was definitely the 71, though.
I like burgundy at all stages, as I said. I think especially recent burgs can be enjoyed early at all levels, even grand cru. If people actually have experience opening young grand crus and don’t like them, that’s fine, don’t open them. There’s just a lot of people making wild guesses as to how the wines will show without having opened them.
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If you cannot buy enough wines to buy and drink now plus to age, you really don’t have a choice other than to drink the wines young. Are you really going to not drink wines for 15-20 years while waiting for wines to mature. And, trying to buy mature wines is what really is fraught with peril. I grew up in a different world where Burgundies were not as expensive as they are now. So, most of my wines that I drink from my cellar were bought by me young and then aged in a temperature-controlled cellar. Same with most of my friends that are my age. But, when I taste Burgundies that were bought by friends on the auction market or whatever, it really is a lottery as to whether you are getting something good or something cooked. Yes, I have bought mature wines (recently purchased a few 1979 Ridge Zins), but they are a small minority of what I drink and I know the wines are a crap shoot (although they look good - the capsules even spin and the fill is good). A lot of younger people who don’t like aged wines have had a lot of aged wines that have not be properly stored.
My recommendation is to stop listening to the big hitters on this board and buy wines you can afford. Find a good retailer who can help you, start a tasting group with friends, etc., etc. Find ways to taste a bunch of wines at a time - go to the grand tastings at the Paulees held in NY City and California. La Paulée - the world’s premier Burgundy wine event Visit Burgundy and taste at producers and in restaurants (there are a bunch of restaurants there with longstanding relationships with wineries that sell wines for cheaper prices than you would pay at retail in the US). There is nothing magical about getting to try young wines. Very easy to do.
Forget Chambertin and buy premier crus or even villages level wines (both Trapet and Rossignol-Trapet make excellent villages level wines, as do many other excellent producers). The best way to learn about wine is to buy a bunch of bottles of the same thing and drink one young and then have another bottle every few years until they are mature. Find a couple of producers you like from the above and buy some wines from the ones you like. Then, you will learn how wines mature and when you like them the best.
Burgundies can taste very different from one another. This makes it hard to just blindly follow the recommendations of others. Find out what YOU like. But, again, always buy what you can afford. There is always something “better” than what you will have. I don’t know what you typically drink - if it is California Cab, do you only drink Screaming Eagle. If it is Bordeaux, do you drink only Latour. The big hitters (whether for Burgundy or any other wine region) are not going to lead you to a good path. They don’t want to drink wine - they want to drink trophies.
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I am not going to fill my collection with grand cru burgundy. I thought it would be nice to acquire a few things and put them aside. I have plenty of wine to drink, particularly Pinot, from all over the world and can wait and save some nicer wines until they are better developed. 22 is also a birth year, so I thought it might also be nice to grab some nicer things to set down.
When I say I can’t afford it, I mean I can’t go out and get cases of this stuff. I have 2 kids who do a wonderful job limiting my disposable income lol. That said, I don’t see the harm in having a few bottles of anything. When I got started years ago, I stretched on a few things and am glad to have them now even if it is just a handful of bottles.
At any rate, I’m not buying anything at the moment. I plan to spend more time at the lower levels and get a feel for which producers I like before spending that sort of money on any particular bottle - I do appreciate the advice on the tasting front.
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22 is a good vintage for reds too. Hudelot especially did very well. Jp guyon did too, they’re pricey but I think a lot of people are going to regret not buying.
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Interesting to read about Trapet vs R-Trapet - page 256 and 259 of 2nd Edition of Inside Burgundy.