I haven’t had the En Billat, but happy to hear that as I just bought one not long ago.
And don’t get me wrong, Boulanger & Allante can be very good. One of the best bottles of white Jura I ever had was a 2010 La Bardette from them.
But the consistency has been lower than my experience with Ganevat and Labet, and besides the aforementioned 2010 I don’t think they have been as good as those producers in most cases. I bought a decent stash before prices went through the roof (around 35-40€ per bottle on avg).
I was in Rotalier on Friday for a tasting at Labet, Christian Boulanger also came by with another eight wines for us to taste. The A et B wines were all very clean and showed well. The A&B 2022 Trousseau may have been the highlight of the thirty or so wines we tasted.
If you are in the area, Autour de l’Âtre in Grusse is a great surprise of a restaurant in a village of maybe fifteen or twenty homes.
Its interesting how hard you’ve been on the negociant Ganevat red wines. I’ve had a few dozen of these through the years and I’ve pretty much universally loved them. Both reds and whites. In fact I had the 2013 De Toute Beaute Nature tonight and it was really a wonderful wine. Still really holding up after 11 years.
I never had issues with mousiness or overly unbalanced VA/bretty wines. The issues has been from early oxidation to straight up weird wines tasting extremely metallic when they had a bit of age on them (i mainly have experience with the whites).
A good example is a case of their special 2017 cuvée, called Mix, which I bought a case of. It has been all over the place.
But then again people don’t talk a lot about overall issues with early very oxidized ouillé wines. But it is certainly an issue in the area.
Negociant red wines? I’ve been hard on all Ganevat red wines!
Well, not all of them - just a big majority.
I got into Ganevat wines when his reds were still somewhat “normal”, ie. pretty similar to any Jura reds. However, it seems that over the years his style of reds have turned into more natty glou-glou bistro wines, resulting in simple, light reds that have consistently problems with mousiness, elevated levels of VA (often bordering on acetic) and lack depth, structure and persona.
At some point I thought only the nego reds were like this - which is why I was pretty shocked when I tasted one of Ganevat’s estate reds and it was exactly like this as well. And horribly mousy, too. Although some Ganevat estate reds have been still lovely, most of them are a far cry from what they used to be.
But I guess 2013 Toute Beaute might be old enough not to be from the natty phase yet! I don’t know, haven’t tasted the vintage.
I’ve drunk way too much natty wines in my life to get much (or any) excitement out of them.
It’s not that they are bad wines per se. On the contrary, some can be enormously drinkable and delicious.
The problem is when the wines start to taste like one another without any sense of place or varietal character. If I can’t tell in a blind tasting whether I’m drinking a naturalist Beaujolais, Dolcetto, Cahors or Priorat, where’s the point? If I’ve criticized extracted, overripe and excessively oaked fruit bombs for having no sense of place or varietal character, I think it would be dishonest of me not to blame the natty glou-glou bistro wines of the same problems. (But at least the natty bistro wines are more enjoyable and refreshing than the modernist blockbusters - as long as they are not mousy!)
But I’m not saying other people shouldn’t drink wines I don’t like! If people like natty glou-glou or gloopy oak monsters, go wild!
This has been my issue with a lot of natural wine (besides the obvious VA and mouse issues). A lot of it tends to taste the same.
That is not to say there aren’t natural winemakers who make characterful, distinctive wines with a sense of place (the wines I gravitate towards from California winemakers tend to lean natural and semi-carbonic and I find some of them distinctive and interesting). They are just relatively few and far between; though I guess you can say that’s true of winemakers in general.
Just because a larger “natty” segement likes to make wine in a glou glou style, doesn’t mean that that is a part of the idea behind natural wine. You can make a heavy extracted, late harvest, non-carbonic wine that are just as “natural”. It probably won’t sell well though.
Glou glou is just fashion, it has nothing to do with the idea of not adding any additives and farming in a certain way.
A few Berserkers gathered at our place last Sunday and we drank some Allante, an old Ganevat red, and a super interesting Brignot Poulsard…
2018 Mathieu Allante et Christian Boulanger Phenomaynal - France, Vin de France (4/28/2024)
Very pretty on the nose with nice intensity, minerals, citrus notes, slightly reductive qualities, and lemon. Nice acidity with lots of lemon and citrus flavors, minerals, smoke, and a bit of mint. There are noticeable tannins on the palate that add texture and structure. Long finish. Excellent wine with great complexity. Really reminds me of a Ganevat Chalasses. (95 points)
2005 Jean-François Ganevat Côtes du Jura Cuvée Julien - France, Jura, Côtes du Jura (4/28/2024)
Lovely nose with red berries, forest floor, and flowers. Good acidity with quite a bit of tannic structure on the palate, more red fruits and berries, alpine strawberries, slightly earthy, and tart red fruit. Nice finish. This tasted so much younger than a 2005 and overall it reminded me much more of 2005 red Burgundy than a Ganevat red. Very enjoyable, overall. (93 points)
2004 Jean-Marc Brignot Arbois Preface - France, Jura, Arbois (4/28/2024)
What an experience this wine was! Started out with quite strong barnyard and funky flavors and very reduced overall so I was a bit worried. 3-4 hours in the decanter really made this come alive, though. Beautiful notes of wild strawberries, earth, savory, and flowers on the nose. Good acidity with a slightly cleaner flavors on the palate, more wild strawberries, cherries, a bit more funk, and nice complexity. Great finish. What a wine! This is completely alive and kept changing in the glass. After about 5 hours, the last sip was probably the best. It's nuanced and beautiful, but also very wild. Probably not for everyone, but even people with a more traditional palate who generally dislike these types of barnyard notes in wines really enjoyed it (with air). (95 points)
I haven’t seen this claim perpetuated here that much, so it sounds more like a poor attempt at a straw man. This is something the natty kids are repeating all the time, but who takes them seriously anyway?
I think there are lots of naturalist winemakers making wines that are real terroir wines with true sense of place and correct varietal identity, but there are tons of conventional winemakers who make similarly accurate wines, too.
Can’t say mousiness, bretty funk, carbonic bubblegum notes, nail polish tones or acetic vinegary tang really speak of place any more than excessive oak, overripeness or heavily manipulative winemaking. Fortunately the middle ground between these two extremes is quite large.
