TN: Some furrin wines for the Super Bowl (Carbonnieux, 904, Clos des Papes, Produttori, Grahams)

A mostly pleasing line-up. The white was consumed with Terra and blue corn chips and olives, the reds with braised pork shoulder.

*** 2010 Ch. Carbonnieux (blanc):** Wonderful! What is that scent and flavor?? Quinine! Plus lots of minerals, good acidity. Surprisingly good for this relatively young age. 91.6-ish

*** 2005 La Rioja Alta Reserva 904:** This has really come into alignment since I bought some two years ago. Crystalline, i.e., transparent with great acidity. Burgundy-like in structure and color. The fruit axis is around red cherries. The oak isn’t conspicuous. Very drinkable now, even though this will likely go for decades, based on past vintages. (Decanted ~30 minutes ahead.) 92.1-ish

*** 2004 Clos des Papes - Chateauneuf.** Slightly better than a bottle in October, which was tired and porty. This one was a touch less porty and not tired, but still overripe, raisiny, with the alcohol popping out around the sides. I bought these because '04 seemed less prone to CdP’s excessive tendencies. This seemed quite nice on release.
Sigh. Guess I’ll limit my CdP purchases to Charvin and the sui generis Beaucastel. (Not decanted because of porty scents. Sampled over several hours. Same issue.) 79-ish

So I opened …

*** 2005 Produttori di Barbaresco - Barbaresco - normale:** Previous bottles had seemed a bit diffuse – a little lacking in concentration, and a bit hot. The alcohol showed at first, but this seemed to have more in the middle than the earlier bottles. Not as good as the '04 and way below the '06, but not bad. And way better than the Clos des Papes. (Decanted ~30 minutes ahead. Seemed to improve as it was sampled over several hours.) 90.3-ish

*** 1977 Graham’s Vintage Port:** Better than when it was opened two weeks ago. (It was refrigerated in the meantime.) It seemed a bit simple then, but had evolved nicely. The first mature vintage port in a long time. Very nice but still left me craving more complexity.

Let’s hear it for the Eagles!!

[Edited to add wines in heading]

I wish I had picked up more of the 2005 904 from PJs. It hasn’t been that long since their release, and yet they’re much harder to source at release price than I expected.

Wow, just checked Wine Searcher and was surprised to see how the price has run up on the '05 904. I got some at PJs for ~$40 two years ago and I see the lowest price nationally for the '05 is in the $60s. The '07 seems to be at roughly the same price as the '05 was two years ago, though.

Thanks for the 904 note, I have a couple of 6 packs buried in the cellar, tried a bottle on release and didnt really get what the fuss was about, glad to hear its coming together,
John in your experience with Rioja (and with this wine in particular) what is the rough guide to aging them and what do they turn out like?

I don’t have a lot of experience with older 904s. (A '98 two years ago was corked, sadly.) But generally the Gran Reservas from good producers can go many decades in good years, which '05 was.

Whether you like them really old or not is a personal thing. I’ve had many reservas and gran reservas from the '60s and '70s that that were very much alive but a little too two-dimensional, dominated by caramel smells (from American oak, I guess). But the best are quite special. I guess on the whole I prefer them a bit younger.

If you’ve got a couple of six-packs, you should definitely try one now, as it’s quite drinkable.

Thanks,
I find that information useful, I wasnt sure if they required a lifetime to transform into something magical or just needed time to be drinkable, did you decant your bottle and if so how many hours did it need to hit a sweet spot?

Just had the 05 PdB Normale, I really enjoyed.

I’m surprised it was that hard to drink. I find that thanks to their late releases, traditional rioja almost always drinks pretty well. Certainly there is often much room for improvement with age, but it’s not young Bordeaux

Why do you drink those Commie wines on that great 'Merican sectarian holiday. We went with really great California wines to go with real food:

2008 Saxum JBV (magnum)
2013 Sine Qua Non Syrah Male
2010 Outpost Grenache
2008 Rivers Marie Cabernet
2012 Black Sears Zinfandel

The prices of the 904s have definitely come up… I was getting them in the UK for <25 GBP a few years ago, and they were some of the best values out there. I bid on some '01 and '04s last week on K&L thinking they’d be undervalued, and they went for ~$75 a pop.

Daniel,
I just couldnt see any elegance in the wine, TBH Rioja is a blind spot in my cellar, the 2 wooden 6 packs of this is my total investment, I have more bottles of Sherry than red or white spainish wine.
I didnt write a note, but I remember lots of oak, drying tannins and no great depth of flavour, however I will dig out a case and give one another go

Clos des Papes jumped the shark with the 03–at least until 06. I gave up trying after that.

There are other traditional CdPs besides Charvin that don’t try to be jet fuel, but he is, indeed, reliable.

As I said in the note, I decanted it about a half hour before we first tried it, and then drank it over an hour or so.

??

+1

I’d heard in recent years that they had gone to the dark side at some point, but I didn’t know when. I tasted this on release and thought it seemed fresh and not over-the-top, so I bought two bottles. Glad I didn’t buy anymore.

i tried to grab some of these on release and couldn’t find em anywhere near me or from my normal (jjbuckley) source. was kinda sad about it cuz i agree, it has jumped some on me now.

Thanks John. Did you find the oak to be conspicuous two years ago (if you tried it then)? I don’t have the 2005 in my cellar, but rather the 2007, which I feel is drinking well enough now. Today, the 2007 does have a conspicuous oak presence and I am curious how much of that will absorb with time.

I don’t really recall, but I think the oak was a little more in the foreground when I tried it two years ago.

There’s definitely a lot of oak, and while I happen to find that heavy American oak works really well in Rioja, others don’t. But I don’t remember drying tannins from my limited experience with the 05. Maybe bottle variation? I think Rioja happens to have a lot of variation perhaps due to a combination of the high volume and extended bottle aging

Marcus had asked if Rioja needs more time to be drinkable. I put words in his mouth when I suggested that he found it hard to drink, but I really was just referring to the overall unapproachablility that Marcus found.

OK. I didn’t read his comment as saying it was hard to drink. Just that he wasn’t impressed.