Where do we place our bets? I’ll take the under!
I think it should be a Jimmy Fallon Lip Synch battle using a song with a wine reference.
I put 3:1 on my 'hood brotha from So Cal.
What will the tasting be comprised of ? Milkshakes or a Taint tasting?
Thanks for playin’.
Tens or hundreds of thousands of Burgundians gave it their all (their livelihoods depending upon them doing so) to make the best wine that they could in 2011, as they do in every vintage. The wines are moderately ripe and low in alcohol. You, using the power of the internet and with nothing at stake, broadcast that the vintage is “tainted.” That lacks decency and propriety (i.e., decorum); me calling you on your impropriety does not. I don’t expect that I will ever want to test your amateur palate as wine for me is not a test, competition or scoring exercise. Rather, it is a beverage to be enjoyed at the dinner table, one bottle at a time. There, chocolate does not work so well; moderate ripeness, low alcohol and even some green do. Perhaps Marc and/or Robert will take you up on your tasting challenge, and introduce you to some best green and funk going, so much so that you will be seeking refuge in 2011 red Burgundy.
Be sure that the same strong discussions occur on french forums …
Ripe vs fresh … (and it is not so easy to conclude, today, on 2004 red burgs).
A non determinist issue, which seems to me something very attractive in wine passion (we are not machines and always talk of ourselves behind what we say about wines).
Hoping my english is not too ackward/tainted … ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Martin,
you mentioned several times that Kevin is an amateur. It seems to be important to you. If so – why do you give the opinion of an amateur so much weight?
For some reason you seem to protect a certain wine style. This is not necessary because those who like a riper style of wine won´t care for what you have to say and the other way round as well. People like what they like and buy and drink what they like. It´s pretty simple. Furthermore I don’t know what 11 Bourgogne has to do with 00 St. Emilion.
I think this board is not the place for personal battles. You expressed your opinion, Kevin did the same. That´s it. Please stop the personal attacks and move on.
Last but not least: I really don´t get this never ending controversy between the two parties – modernists vs traditionalists. It is always a mistake to loose objectivity and tolerance. IMO. Some like acid and underripe aspects more than others. Does this make them better tasters, wine lovers or experts? Certainly not. The same is true for those who love modern ST. Emilion like Jeff Leve. There is room for everyone.
Yes. It’s the age old question, when is a grape ripe? Most winemakers talk about ripe pips, how the grapes taste and a few still worry about sugars. The late Denis Dubordieu had my favorite answer when the birds begin to flock into the vineyards, and Clive Coates talked about a winemaker that used to kick the vines until the grapes fell, but lately has been getting very sore feet.
I have to say when Kevin first posted his notes, I was not surprised to see how much he liked the vintage, and how well Pavie showed. His palate and mine are pretty diametrically opposed, so understood where he was coming from. When I looked at the charts, I realized that my friend, Panos, whose palate is much more aligned to mine, must have also liked Pavie, so e mailed him. He confirmed it, so I am beginning to think I may have to crack my one bottle, which I had saved for a vast 2000 tasting for the 20th anniversary of the vintage in three years. Last time I had the 2000 Pavie was around 5 years ago at Vinexpo, and I really did dislike it, my notes referring to a trailing sweetness, and an very/overly ripe raisiny character. Will look for the proper occasion, and throw it in.
I must add that I opened a somptuous Châteauneuf-du-Pape Bonneau cuvée spéciale 1998 last week-end.
Unsurprisingly very ripe/solar but perfectly balanced, very thin, very long and showing an exceptional drinkability (98/100).
please drink the 2000 immediately. Then when the 20th anniversary arrives, you can buy my 3 bottles!!
Marc, you miser, bring the Pavie to one of our wine nights. You know half the group will like it, and who knows, perhaps we may be surprised. I’ll crack a Valendraud that was gifted to me.
Laurent - Your English is quite fine, good to see you posting more here!
Robert,
Thank you.
I will soon post a long report addressing corsican wines …
July 2004 :
Saint-Emilion GC - Virginie de Valandraud 2000 : 14,5/20
On décèle d’emblée (on sait le vin) un élevage luxueux, luxuriant, avec ses senteurs lascives de cacao, de vanille, de fruits mûrs et, ce qui est plus inédit, de savon d’Alep (laurier, huile d’olive). Le vin, aux tonalités très mûres et parfaitement lisse, s’offre luxurieusement sans aucune retenue, sur un mode gentiment régressif. La cosmétique nous paraît clairement l’emporter sur la personnalité. Un style qui ne fera pas que des zélateurs.
Hence, a lot of chocolate richness for me too, in this regressive second wine … 
no way I am wasting a good tasting on those two bottles.
Marc,
We know what you like. Is that really necessary?
Kevin, I do not hate these wines, just not my preference! We only do around two guy nights a year,
I gotta be picky.
Therefore, we save it for something more aligned to our tastes. So we picked 2011 Burgs for our next dinner 
Too soon?
JK sir
Marc,
no it´s a good idea to drink the ´11 now before they are loosing the tiny amounts of fragile fruit they have 
((Joke))
Martin get me a case asap! 
Marc,
It might be interesting to do a blind of the 00 Pavie or Valandraud and mixing up with the 01 Pomerols.
Jurgen,
The irony is that I really don’t look for fruit in red Burgundy. I believe the 11s evolution will be similar to the 07 but not as good in general. If one already bought some, just cellar for another five to ten years for the 1er crus and up.
I have Rousseau Clos St-Jacques and Chambertin 2011 in my cellar.
Wait and see.
By the way, I had a disappointing Clos de Bèze 2004 last year (very vegetal, as both red and white burgs may sometimes be).
Found Clos de Bèze 2007 great in june 2014.
IMO, the 07s lack concentration but show very pretty floral nose. For my palate, the tannins are ever so slightly dry/stemmy. The 07s are showing beautifully.
Over the years Marc and I have brought in a handful of Pavies to our eclectic group. While not generally my style, it definitely has an appeal to many people, and in this style, clearly does it well, working with the fine materials that it has. I do not think we have tried the 2000 in this group. We’ve done 98, 99, 01, 03 and 04. I think we did the 03 on the same tasting where we had the 01 Harlan. The lovers of Pavie loved Harlan.
The only Valandraud that I have is 2010. Any idea when it would be best to pop this wine?