TN: 2019 Hofgut Falkenstein Krettnacher Euchariusberg Riesling Kabinett "Kugel Peter" #12

David_Bu3ker · January 9, 2021, 1:28am

When tasting the wines I find nothing that would indicate a potential lack of longevity. Of course the “doesn’t age” meme has come up before, and been dead wrong before. I am certain it will be wrong here.

Lars_Carlberg · January 9, 2021, 8:29am

Lars, it confuses me that this is a question. Haven’t the Webers owned the estate for a very long time (at least since the 1980s)? Shouldn’t it be known by now whether the wines age or they don’t age. Have things changed in how they do things enough to raise a question?

The Webers have owned Falkensteiner Hof (Hofgut Falkenstein) since 1985. For many people, the wines are new. The things that have changed are more off-dry and residually sweet wines. In the past, most of the wines were dry. In the 2013 vintage, they also replaced their old screw press with a new pneumatic press.

So, what is the history of the wines aging? At what ages do you think the wines are best based on your history with the estate. The oldest wine I have had was a 2017 I had in 2020.

I must admit that this discussion is kind of strange to me. I cannot remember having a Saar wine from an excellent producer that has not aged well from a decent vintage.

The aging potential is no different from any other top producer on the Saar and Mosel. I’ve tasted wines from the late eighties and early nineties that showed very well. Unlike certain estates that have a Schatzkammer, the Webers don’t have a large private cellar of back vintages.

Lars_Carlberg · January 9, 2021, 9:06am

The Webers have owned Falkensteiner Hof (Hofgut Falkenstein) since 1985. For many people, the wines are new. The things that have changed are more off-dry and residually sweet wines. In the past, most of the wines were dry. In the 2013 vintage, they also replaced their old screw press with a new pneumatic press.

So, what is the history of the wines aging? At what ages do you think the wines are best based on your history with the estate. The oldest wine I have had was a 2017 I had in 2020.

I must admit that this discussion is kind of strange to me. I cannot remember having a Saar wine from an excellent producer that has not aged well from a decent vintage.

Here is the issue. In 2018, Hofgut (and it sounds like other producers) used only the first run juice to make their wines. That might make for a racy set of wines and helps deal with hot vintage, where acidity drops pretty significantly as you press, but it seems like it leaves a question about longevity. Here is Lars’ response when I asked about it earlier (note that the thread is titled for the 2017, but Lars is responding to my post about the ‘18):

https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2958385#p2958385

I had read that the 2019 was similarly lightly pressed and that only the first run juice was used, and therefore had what was basically the same question that I had about the 18s. So this isn’t really about whether Saar wines can age. I don’t think anyone debates that. I’ve had tons of beautiful Egon Muller wines from the 70s that, while undrinkable because they are completely infected with TCA, have otherwise aged beautifully. And that is just one example. My point was about a specific winemaking technique, and how it affects ageabilty. It wasn’t an attack on Falkenstein’s wines (whose wines I’ve been cellaring for quite some time) or a question about the longevity of the Saar. It sounds like I was incorrect about what was done at Falkenstein in 2019 anyway. No one seemed to think it was such a big deal to ask this question last time, but now everyone loves the wines (thanks, Mosel Fine Wine guys) so I seem to have struck a nerve. In any event, I really like the wines whether they age or not.

A

I guess maybe I wasn’t clear, but I meant that that’s correct. The Webers also lightly pressed their grapes in the 2019 vintage. But, as I wrote in that earlier thread, the first pressing doesn’t only include the free-run juice. I’m not bothered by your questions at all. You’re an astute observer. A number of big-name German producers have purchased expensive Bucher basket presses for a part of their production because these are very gentle and give the equivalent of free-run juice.

Lars_Carlberg · January 9, 2021, 9:23am

My point was about a specific winemaking technique, and how it affects ageabilty. It wasn’t an attack on Falkenstein’s wines (whose wines I’ve been cellaring for quite some time) or a question about the longevity of the Saar. It sounds like I was incorrect about what was done at Falkenstein in 2019 anyway. No one seemed to think it was such a big deal to ask this question last time, but now everyone loves the wines (thanks, Mosel Fine Wine guys) so I seem to have struck a nerve. In any event, I really like the wines whether they age or not.

Are they the first Saar winery to have ever done this? Again, shouldn’t there be a history about what has happened using first run juice only on Saar wines? My question is not whether you were right or wrong raising this but why there isn’t an easy answer based on history to your question.

Well, that was sort of my question as well, both in April and in this thread. I don’t have a perfect answer yet, although it sounds like Lars knows of others who have done so. As to the history, winemaking techniques are adapting for climate change so I’m not sure it is true that there is an easy answer based on the past. 2018 just sort of feels like a breaking point and a watershed moment in a lot of ways. And using only the first press is an expensive proposition. One would have to be willing to make a real financial sacrifice for the sake of producing wines in the preferred style.
A

The Webers intuitively chose to fraction a part of the pressing in the 2018 vintage, but they always did whole-bunch pressing. Most producers lightly crush and press the grapes, which gives more juice and a different style of wine. One can also macerate the crushed grapes before pressing. As for fractioning, certain producers keep all the pressings from a given batch for different wines, so there’s no real financial sacrifice. Once again, I don’t want to name names or give away all the details about the Webers’ pressing regimen in a wine forum.

A_Gillette · January 9, 2021, 2:49pm

So, what is the history of the wines aging? At what ages do you think the wines are best based on your history with the estate. The oldest wine I have had was a 2017 I had in 2020.

I must admit that this discussion is kind of strange to me. I cannot remember having a Saar wine from an excellent producer that has not aged well from a decent vintage.

Here is the issue. In 2018, Hofgut (and it sounds like other producers) used only the first run juice to make their wines. That might make for a racy set of wines and helps deal with hot vintage, where acidity drops pretty significantly as you press, but it seems like it leaves a question about longevity. Here is Lars’ response when I asked about it earlier (note that the thread is titled for the 2017, but Lars is responding to my post about the ‘18):

https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2958385#p2958385

I had read that the 2019 was similarly lightly pressed and that only the first run juice was used, and therefore had what was basically the same question that I had about the 18s. So this isn’t really about whether Saar wines can age. I don’t think anyone debates that. I’ve had tons of beautiful Egon Muller wines from the 70s that, while undrinkable because they are completely infected with TCA, have otherwise aged beautifully. And that is just one example. My point was about a specific winemaking technique, and how it affects ageabilty. It wasn’t an attack on Falkenstein’s wines (whose wines I’ve been cellaring for quite some time) or a question about the longevity of the Saar. It sounds like I was incorrect about what was done at Falkenstein in 2019 anyway. No one seemed to think it was such a big deal to ask this question last time, but now everyone loves the wines (thanks, Mosel Fine Wine guys) so I seem to have struck a nerve. In any event, I really like the wines whether they age or not.

A

I guess maybe I wasn’t clear, but I meant that that’s correct. The Webers also lightly pressed their grapes in the 2019 vintage. But, as I wrote in that earlier thread, the first pressing doesn’t only include the free-run juice. I’m not bothered by your questions at all. You’re an astute observer. A number of big-name German producers have purchased expensive Bucher basket presses for a part of their production because these are very gentle and give the equivalent of free-run juice.

Thanks Lars. I appreciate the response. As I think more about the thread, I guess part of what’s so interesting, and what makes the Hofgut Falkenstein wines so exciting, is that the really are different than anything else produced in the Saar. The wines are unique. In any event, I just checked my own records. I started buying these in the 2013 vintage. For the 2018/19 vintages, I’ve got about 60 bottles from each vintage. I’ve got more than that in 2017. So I will be able to drink a few bottles a year for the next 50 years and can report back.
A

Dav3_Dyr0ff · January 9, 2021, 3:09pm

Another thing that makes HF unique among European wineries is having Lars here, participating so frequently and openly (even if he has to keep a “house secret” to himself now and again).

Being able to connect with the estate like this is tremendous, and very much appreciated!

Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r · January 9, 2021, 4:24pm

Agreed. Really like having Lars post here and his responsiveness on IG, especially if you post a pic of a Hofgut Falkenstein wine and haven’t tagged it properly

A_Gillette · January 9, 2021, 5:11pm

Agreed! Lots of useful information from Lars, particularly if you become a member of his site. Lots of useful articles for subscribers there.
A

Doug_Sher · January 9, 2021, 5:16pm

I think that if a bottle of wine has been open and does not decline, it is a good indicator of it’s ageability. In 2016, I was given several cases of bottles of various 2015 Falkenstein wines that had been opened before I received them. The corks were put back in the bottle and they sat in cases in the hallway of my apartment. I finished the last bottles about four months after I received them and noticed no deterioration in quality. Additionally, I have kept bottles of various vintages that were half finished (mostly auslese and spatlese) in the fridge for a month with similar “results”. Unfortunately, all of these were 2015 or later as that was my first vintage.

I think they are quite ageworthy, but hard to age as I have never found one to be less than delicious.

While it hasn’t received as much attention as some of the other 2019’s, the Ober Schaferhaus is also worth seeking out. It’s the most exciting trocken Falkenstein wine that I’ve ever had the pleasure of tasting. I’ve killed 10 bottles out of a case thus far, although some of them have been gifted to friends.

G_Curd · January 12, 2021, 4:09pm

Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r · January 13, 2021, 3:23am

I think that if a bottle of wine has been open and does not decline, it is a good indicator of it’s ageability. In 2016, I was given several cases of bottles of various 2015 Falkenstein wines that had been opened before I received them. The corks were put back in the bottle and they sat in cases in the hallway of my apartment. I finished the last bottles about four months after I received them and noticed no deterioration in quality. Additionally, I have kept bottles of various vintages that were half finished (mostly auslese and spatlese) in the fridge for a month with similar “results”. Unfortunately, all of these were 2015 or later as that was my first vintage.

I think they are quite ageworthy, but hard to age as I have never found one to be less than delicious.

While it hasn’t received as much attention as some of the other 2019’s, the Ober Schaferhaus is also worth seeking out. It’s the most exciting trocken Falkenstein wine that I’ve ever had the pleasure of tasting. I’ve killed 10 bottles out of a case thus far, although some of them have been gifted to friends.

I reloaded on the 2019 Ober Schaferhaus after trying it. Very good!

Claus_Jeppesen · January 13, 2021, 6:10pm

You must be a lot younger than me
I have calculated the there should still be time to enjoy my bottles of Keller, Shäfer, Schönleber, Prüm Koehler Ruprecht etc etc AND FALKENSTEIN