TN: 2019 Hofgut Falkenstein Krettnacher Euchariusberg Riesling Kabinett "Kugel Peter" #12

Claus_Jeppesen · January 8, 2021, 3:08pm

I have around 120 bottles
Sames as a good Danish friend near by
We look forward to drink them at age 20

Claus_Jeppesen · January 8, 2021, 3:11pm

That’s double me lol

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don’t age has been said before. It’s unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Thanks Lars.
I am 100% confident that these wines (Trocken, Feonherb, etc) will be so delicious in 20 years

Lars_Carlberg · January 8, 2021, 4:13pm

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don’t age has been said before. It’s unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Thanks Lars. I had read that it was only first press juice in 2019 as well but sounds like that was incorrect.
A

You’re welcome, Alex. That’s correct, but I don’t want to reveal too much. So much depends on the quality of the grapes. This starts with pruning the vines. The Webers gently press the grapes whole, but so do Raveneau and Vincent Dauvissat and most Champagne producers. I will say that some big-name producers do fractioning while pressing and no one questions the lifespan of their wines. Even before the 2018 vintage, certain people were questioning the quality and longevity of the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein. It’s okay. The wines are delicious early on, and it makes people wonder if they age.

Lars_Carlberg · January 8, 2021, 4:31pm

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don’t age has been said before. It’s unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Thanks Lars.
I am 100% confident that these wines (Trocken, Feonherb, etc) will be so delicious in 20 years

Thanks, Claus.

Robert_Dentice · January 8, 2021, 5:03pm

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don’t age has been said before. It’s unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Thanks Lars. I had read that it was only first press juice in 2019 as well but sounds like that was incorrect.
A

You’re welcome, Alex. That’s correct, but I don’t want to reveal too much. So much depends on the quality of the grapes. This starts with pruning the vines. The Webers gently press the grapes whole, but so do Raveneau and Vincent Dauvissat and most Champagne producers. I will say that some big-name producers do fractioning while pressing and no one questions the lifespan of their wines. Even before the 2018 vintage, certain people were questioning the quality and longevity of the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein. It’s okay. The wines are delicious early on, and it makes people wonder if they age.

I for one seriously question the longevity of the wines. Every time I open a bottle it never lasts long.

Jayson_Cohen · January 8, 2021, 5:08pm

Thanks Lars. I had read that it was only first press juice in 2019 as well but sounds like that was incorrect.
A

You’re welcome, Alex. That’s correct, but I don’t want to reveal too much. So much depends on the quality of the grapes. This starts with pruning the vines. The Webers gently press the grapes whole, but so do Raveneau and Vincent Dauvissat and most Champagne producers. I will say that some big-name producers do fractioning while pressing and no one questions the lifespan of their wines. Even before the 2018 vintage, certain people were questioning the quality and longevity of the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein. It’s okay. The wines are delicious early on, and it makes people wonder if they age.

I for one seriously question the longevity of the wines. Every time I open a bottle it never lasts long.

#singleserving750

Dav3_Dyr0ff · January 8, 2021, 5:14pm

I’m no winemaker, but I have been a serious wine drinker for almost 30 years, so hopefully I have some credibility. And, while this is purely anecdotal rather than based on controlled double-blind scientific research, over those 30 years I have found that one key to a bottle’s longevity is its owner’s ability to resist opening it.

Robert_Dentice · January 8, 2021, 6:05pm

I am well over 500 not counting mags as double so I hope so too…

Claus_Jeppesen · January 8, 2021, 6:15pm

Great Robert
Let’s talk in 2041😊

Howard_Cooper · January 8, 2021, 7:54pm

That’s double me lol

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don’t age has been said before. It’s unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Lars, it confuses me that this is a question. Haven’t the Webers owned the estate for a very long time (at least since the 1980s)? Shouldn’t it be known by now whether the wines age or they don’t age. Have things changed in how they do things enough to raise a question?

Lars_Carlberg · January 8, 2021, 8:24pm

I bought a good bit like I do every year, but I’m still not sure about the lifespan of these wines given the use of just the first-press juice. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you drink them young, when they are so delicious it’s hard to resist. I started putting away more of the wines beginning with the ‘17 vintage, but there is part of me that thinks these won’t make old bones. Does anyone know of other producers that use just the first-press? Maybe Lars will chime in.
A

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don’t age has been said before. It’s unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Lars, it confuses me that this is a question. Haven’t the Webers owned the estate for a very long time (at least since the 1980s)? Shouldn’t it be known by now whether the wines age or they don’t age. Have things changed in how they do things enough to raise a question?

The Webers have owned Falkensteiner Hof (Hofgut Falkenstein) since 1985. For many people, the wines are new. The things that have changed are more off-dry and residually sweet wines. In the past, most of the wines were dry. In the 2013 vintage, they also replaced their old screw press with a new pneumatic press.

Claus_Jeppesen · January 8, 2021, 9:05pm

MSemler · January 8, 2021, 9:13pm

Thanks for the TN!

Any experience with the 2019 Krettnacher Euchariusberg Spatlese #14?

Jayson_Cohen · January 8, 2021, 10:17pm

It’s phenomenal. If you search, there are a number of reports on WB over the last few months. I cellared 3 initially. Opened a fourth. Then bought 5 more.

MSemler · January 9, 2021, 12:16am

Thanks, Jayson!

Andrew_K · January 9, 2021, 12:31am

Only got one of each also. Hard to find here unfortunately

Howard_Cooper · January 9, 2021, 12:34am

It was the 2018 vintage. The Webers noticed that it made sense to fraction at pressing, because the acidity dropped significantly the harder the grapes were pressed. In a normal vintage, they gently press to a higher bar, as the acidity declines only gradually. Other top producers did the same thing in 2018 and used the first-pressed juice for certain wines.

The accusations that the wines of Hofgut Falkenstein don’t age has been said before. It’s unfortunate, because the Webers believe in low yields and low intervention.

Lars, it confuses me that this is a question. Haven’t the Webers owned the estate for a very long time (at least since the 1980s)? Shouldn’t it be known by now whether the wines age or they don’t age. Have things changed in how they do things enough to raise a question?

The Webers have owned Falkensteiner Hof (Hofgut Falkenstein) since 1985. For many people, the wines are new. The things that have changed are more off-dry and residually sweet wines. In the past, most of the wines were dry. In the 2013 vintage, they also replaced their old screw press with a new pneumatic press.

So, what is the history of the wines aging? At what ages do you think the wines are best based on your history with the estate. The oldest wine I have had was a 2017 I had in 2020.

I must admit that this discussion is kind of strange to me. I cannot remember having a Saar wine from an excellent producer that has not aged well from a decent vintage.

A_Gillette · January 9, 2021, 12:58am

Lars, it confuses me that this is a question. Haven’t the Webers owned the estate for a very long time (at least since the 1980s)? Shouldn’t it be known by now whether the wines age or they don’t age. Have things changed in how they do things enough to raise a question?

The Webers have owned Falkensteiner Hof (Hofgut Falkenstein) since 1985. For many people, the wines are new. The things that have changed are more off-dry and residually sweet wines. In the past, most of the wines were dry. In the 2013 vintage, they also replaced their old screw press with a new pneumatic press.

So, what is the history of the wines aging? At what ages do you think the wines are best based on your history with the estate. The oldest wine I have had was a 2017 I had in 2020.

I must admit that this discussion is kind of strange to me. I cannot remember having a Saar wine from an excellent producer that has not aged well from a decent vintage.

Here is the issue. In 2018, Hofgut (and it sounds like other producers) used only the first run juice to make their wines. That might make for a racy set of wines and helps deal with hot vintage, where acidity drops pretty significantly as you press, but it seems like it leaves a question about longevity. Here is Lars’ response when I asked about it earlier (note that the thread is titled for the 2017, but Lars is responding to my post about the ‘18):

https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2958385#p2958385

I had read that the 2019 was similarly lightly pressed and that only the first run juice was used, and therefore had what was basically the same question that I had about the 18s. So this isn’t really about whether Saar wines can age. I don’t think anyone debates that. I’ve had tons of beautiful Egon Muller wines from the 70s that, while undrinkable because they are completely infected with TCA, have otherwise aged beautifully. And that is just one example. My point was about a specific winemaking technique, and how it affects ageabilty. It wasn’t an attack on Falkenstein’s wines (whose wines I’ve been cellaring for quite some time) or a question about the longevity of the Saar. It sounds like I was incorrect about what was done at Falkenstein in 2019 anyway. No one seemed to think it was such a big deal to ask this question last time, but now everyone loves the wines (thanks, Mosel Fine Wine guys) so I seem to have struck a nerve. In any event, I really like the wines whether they age or not.

A

Howard_Cooper · January 9, 2021, 1:09am

Are they the first Saar winery to have ever done this? Again, shouldn’t there be a history about what has happened using first run juice only on Saar wines? My question is not whether you were right or wrong raising this but why there isn’t an easy answer based on history to your question.

A_Gillette · January 9, 2021, 1:17am

My point was about a specific winemaking technique, and how it affects ageabilty. It wasn’t an attack on Falkenstein’s wines (whose wines I’ve been cellaring for quite some time) or a question about the longevity of the Saar. It sounds like I was incorrect about what was done at Falkenstein in 2019 anyway. No one seemed to think it was such a big deal to ask this question last time, but now everyone loves the wines (thanks, Mosel Fine Wine guys) so I seem to have struck a nerve. In any event, I really like the wines whether they age or not.

Are they the first Saar winery to have ever done this? Again, shouldn’t there be a history about what has happened using first run juice only on Saar wines? My question is not whether you were right or wrong raising this but why there isn’t an easy answer based on history to your question.

Well, that was sort of my question as well, both in April and in this thread. I don’t have a perfect answer yet, although it sounds like Lars knows of others who have done so. As to the history, winemaking techniques are adapting for climate change so I’m not sure it is true that there is an easy answer based on the past. 2018 just sort of feels like a breaking point and a watershed moment in a lot of ways. And using only the first press is an expensive proposition. One would have to be willing to make a real financial sacrifice for the sake of producing wines in the preferred style.
A