same. i really enjoyed the 16. The 17 on the otherhand…
I’ve experienced a lot of variation with these. I’ve had two bottles that were very tart and out of balance and two that were brilliant dead ringers for st Joseph. We’ll set with a bit more time.
As was stated in another post, the 2016 was both 100% whole cluster and fermented using carbonic maceration. But just because a wine is fermented with 100% whole clusters does NOT mean that the wine is ‘carbonic’. In a true carbonic maceration, whole clusters are put into a closed tank and CO2 is added to displace all oxygen, and then the clusters/grapes are basically left alone to ferment on their own for 2-4 weeks, depending upon the specific producer. At that point, the clusters are pressed and the remaining juice/wine (since it will not be completely fermented dry) is put into a tank usually to finish fermentation.
It is possible to do 100% whole cluster ferments that are not done in a carbonic manner. In this case, the grapes are usually foot stomped to break as many grapes as possible, and then fermentation takes place as usual - usually with punch downs but pumpers can be used with larger quantities. Oftentimes, and depending upon the variety, not all berries/clusters are crushed throughout the fermentation, and whole berries may be present at pressing. I would not consider this ‘partial carbonic’ because it just simply is not in the true sense of the word. And that’s how all of my ferments are performed on all of my red varieties.
Hope that clears things up and doesn’t confuse even more . . .
Cheers.
Well, K&L has this for $35 so I bought a few. We’ll see if that was stupid or not, seems like I’m rolling the dice a bit here!
It’s not stupid. For $35 (I think release was $44 or thereabout) you get to taste what is clearly a polarizing wine. I have showed it to several friends where it seems to evoke a love/hate response. I happen to love it (Pax’s style) but I’m not long on its aging prospects. Would love to be wrong about that though, as mentioned upstream, there appears to be a good amount in folks’ cellars. I’m definitely a buyer in 18
If this wine tastes anything like his Wind Gap product, this is an easy pass. Those wines by far were not very good and I would say some of them were borderline undrinkable.
Had this with three cups chicken (a Taiwanese dish) tonight. Surprisingly good pairing.
There is an astringency to this wine that worried me upon opening and never completely went away. Maybe that’s the acid people talk about. It didn’t go away entirely but certainly, the wine did improve with a few hours of air. I needed to spend time with this wine instead of taking a few sips before moving on. This needs to be served on the cool side, 55-60 degree. As the bottle warmed I had to stick it back in the fridge. I found this ‘17 more interesting than the ‘16 somehow, though the ‘16 is more integrated. My last bottle will be opened in 2-3 years. It will be interesting to see if this wine improves at all or gets worse, but the fact that it settled down some on day 2 is promising.
Crazy amount of sediment stuck to the bottle, which has been stored on its side since release. I would recommend standing this up for a bit before opening.
We had the '16 and '17 at a Berserker dinner Monday. The '16 has faded notably from a year ago, but is still drinking very very well. Something was very wrong with the '17. Certainly a degree of VA, but not at the level anyone called it out that I heard. I’m thinking some other lactic acid bacteria faults along with it. At least one person still liked it, while most couldn’t stand it. (Everyone loved the '16.)
Sure does sound like bottle variation, so it’d be in bottle activity. Aside from handling/provenance issues, it could be something like the pre-bottling SO2 add didn’t mix in evenly. (That happened to someone I know who changed products without knowing the need to alter the process. Much just settled to the bottom of the tank. Oops. Bottle variation.)
The high-level description of the '17 seems pretty consistent from post to post, but how bothersome that acid is seems to vary. Just to complete the picture on my post above, three cups chicken is made in soy sauce and I would describe the acidity to be similarly sour. Probably why I didn’t mind the '17 with that dish. Is that VA?
Not unless your three cup chicken smelled like nail polish remover.
I just had the 17, and 16 along side at dinner the other night. I could see where someone who loved “old” Pax would find this Pax 2.0 … different. I liked the 17, thought it was quite good, but the 16 is exceptional. It’s like the best St Joseph you will ever have. And for the record, “new” Pax is exactly what Syrah is supposed to taste like.
Ours didn’t show nail polish remover, which is ethyl acetate. VA is a broad term, but I specifically got some acetic acid (vinegar), plus sort of a soup of murky almost rancid blech. Presumably from what one might call “bacterial issues”.
That one person was me 
But I tried it late in the evening, I wonder if it had aired out a bit by then. Anyway, I did like the 16 better, but thought the 17 was fine, and enjoyable enough.
Not to be that guy, but I believe we were drinking the 2006 and 7 not 16 and 17.
Robert, they were definitely 16 and 17. Pax didn’t make a wine with that name or label in 06 or 07.
I agree with Wes’ comments. The provenance should be fine on '17. I bought at Winex in OC on release and carried home myself. I still have 2 16’s and 2 17’s left. Hopefully the next `17 shows better. The nose was good but the acidity was way out of balance and the mid palate just seemed rotten to me. It was better on day 3 but 80 points would be generous.
The 16 and the 97 Qupe were both excellent.
It certainly improved on Day 3. I finished the bottle last night it was rounder and less astringent but something still off in my book. I’m glad at least someone enjoyed it.
Sean
Yeah I looked at my pictures and confirmed. Tried to edit that post but was unable.
I tried this wine again recently. This time, a few of us did find subtle VA, not enough to ruin the wine, but enough to comment on. That’s a little troubling. I also noticed that it was sealed with a synthetic stopper, so I will not be buying any to lay down.
He uses Nomacorc closures for the Hillsides as well as the The Hermit in the past. I am not sure if he uses the Nomacorc closures for all his wines now.