I have not run into VA…not at all.
Great to hear - and hope that this is consistent but based on the number of others stating that they are, either you are ‘lucky’ OR their perception of VA is your perception of ‘something else’ perhaps?
Cheers.
Perhaps it’s a misunderstanding of VA. Lord knows I have been schooled on that in the past.
Had 1 bottle last December and it was really bad… Sitting on 5 more and waiting for the right moment. Cellartracker scores are all over the place.
What was bad about it? The 2017 was much more raw/unformed on release than the lauded 2016. It has mostly rounded into form now.
I’m not sure that I’d equate the old Pax to this though. I have actually quite enjoyed what the old fruit bombs have turned into, but (and I think we’ve talked about this) this is an entirely different beast and I wonder how well this can truly age with the amount of carbonic that goes into it.
I’ve had this twice now from a friend who bought a case off the list and it’s still a bit grapey to me. I’m not sure what it’ll turn into and I guess I’ll find out as I know enough people that have this. But, I’m also glad that I don’t have like 5 or 6 bottles that I’m praying that they hold up.
extremely under ripe, fuchsia color and briney. Acid way out of balance. In its defense it was pitted against a 93 Turley Hayne Vineyard Petite Sirah, an 06 Spring Mountain Vineyard Cabernet, and a bottle of Krug 166e during a steakhouse diner. Had it been consumed in a different setting I am sure it would have showed better and been appreciated more.
I like Pax’s other wines and even what he does at Wilde Farm Wines so I’m chalking up my disappointment to the vintage. I’ll open a Sonoma Hillsides soon to reevaluate my position.
Where the carbonic thing really shines is in the valdigue. It is utterly pleasing.
+1
John Glas wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:38 pm
You can get six of these for one Chave.
I’ll take the Chave.
Nice that you have that kind of disposable income. When I spend $200 plus for a wine it is rare.
More that Adrian’s point is that Chave will give him the experience he wants rather than 6x the experience with the Sonoma Hillsides. For you, this wine does give you that experience and you can have it 5 more times
I agree. but from what I remember, old Wind Gap was his playground for the techniques that led to the style of wines he’s making under the Pax label now, while the Pax label was being held to the fruit bomb style that it started as. not sure if that includes carbonic or not, but definitely the more acid-driven, lower abv part.
I could be wrong, but I think the carbonic/semi-carbonic style is something much newer as I don’t remember this being in much of the Wind Gap wines. The acidity and bright red fruits were definitely a hallmark of the newer direction since he started Wind Gap/Pax v2.0
It showed up in a few later Wind Gap wines, but not to the degree he uses it at the new Pax.
Just to clarify, is this Syrah a ‘carbonic’ syrah or one that is made with 100% whole cluster? They do not mean the same thing at all - as I hope most on this board understand.
My guess is that it is not made in a carbonic style - though a handful of clusters may make it all the way through primary fermentation uncrushed, this would not indicate ‘carbonic’ or even ‘partial carbonic’.
Pax has always played around with whole clusters - I remember visiting him back in 2004/5/6 and he was experimenting with various amounts with his syrahs back then.
Cheers.
for me, i’m basing my thoughts/feelings on there possibly being some carbonic in the process as the wine tastes and smells like Carbonic has been involved. He may be using 100% whole cluster in it, but, I haven’t gotten the kind of structure or textural feel on the palate that would make me think that. I could be entirely wrong on what he’s done, but, the wine tastes very different from the whole cluster he was using in the Wind Gap line vs at least the Sonoma Hillside
The 2017 Hillsides is 100% whole cluster.
His 2018 Valdiguie is carbonic. His Trousseau Gri is also partly carbonic as well as his Gamay Noir(whole cluster and partial carbonic maceration)
Looks like the ‘16 is both 100% whole cluster and 100% carbonic.
2016SonomaHillsidesTechSheet.pdf (749 KB)
Can’t find info sheet on the ‘17. Edit: found it and no mention of carbonic
2017+Sonoma+Hillsides+Tech+Sheet.pdf (748 KB)
I was under the impression this wine was 100% whole cluster, and 100% carbonically macerated. Are you saying that isn’t possible? Or am I misunderstanding how carbonic works?
I hope this isn’t mansplaining. Carbonic fermentation only brings you to about 2-3% alcohol and converts some of the acid, similar to malo, which raises ph (significantly, which is my biggest concern with ageability). Carbonic still needs to go through “traditional” fermentation after the carbonic stage.
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