Whats is the style of the Benetiere wines? I never had one. Is it whole cluster and low/gentle extraction? Is it a low sulfites style ala Stephan?
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Some of the wines i have bought lately, at under 100€, from producers i like (bought in Europe).
Franck Balthazar, Chaillot (67€)
Levet, Peroline (55€)
Barge, Coeur de Combard (new vintages 80€+)
Jean-Luc Jamet, Terrasses (70-80€)
Clusel-Roch, Les Grandes Places (80-90€)
Jean-Michel Stephan, Les Binardes (70-80€)
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+1 love his wines.
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Certainly hoping that’s not the case! '12 and '13 indeed were very good. Hopefully they return to glory with '18s and on!
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Had ‘13 and ‘16 not long ago, both were just average wines, I wouldn’t pay the asking prices, I would rather spend the money on Jean Luc Jamet CR Terrasses instead.
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The ‘17 will be fine. Needs time. I had it with Greg and a few others blind and most everyone agreed, after the un-blinding, that it’s Benetiere back to form after the un-Benetiere ‘15.
Along the mold of the 2005 that I brought to our dinner some time ago.
Our take:
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I think Ramon is right. My note didn’t trash this wine, just said it’s not up to the levels of what brought me to Benetiere in the first place, and at this point, I’ll put my money elsewhere. The wine will be fine, it’s just not likely to become a great wine. At least from my clunky assessment
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I opened this 2 weeks ago. It was my first foray into Benetiere. I was not blown away and left wanting more. I have 2 more so I won’t touch them for a while. Not sure I’ll buy 18 when it comes out.
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is it possible - and hear me out here - that benetiere just isn’t a great cote-rotie producer, but has made some really nice wines here and there?
they got WGH* at some point which is always an interesting thing to unpack but happens all the time for various reasons or no reasons at all.
i appreciate i may not be the greatest messenger for this idea given my alleged obsession with the 2015 / 2016 debacle, but nonetheless … is it possible?
** wine geek hype
Dolium, to me, is the counterargument. The ones I’ve had (and admittedly it’s not many) are really good – good enough that it’s hard for me to see it as a broken-clock-is-right-twice-a-day situation.
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fair, but it’s their elite cuvee, made in miniscule quantities - and if anything, its existence makes the regular cuvee even more curiously average?
jamet’s cote-brune is legendary and - imo - as close to gentaz greatness as you can currently get. but their “lowly” regular domaine cote-rotie is also reference CR year in / year out.
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It’s possible! I’ve had the Cordeloux from 2005 to 2013 and the wines have always been excellent in a very oldschool mode, with some extraordinary wines therein (2007, 2010, 2011, 2012). That’s a pretty good run, but not definitive. I’ve never had the Dolium.
this aligns with my experience as well. have had the Dolium a few times and it can be very impressive.
perhaps the quality trend is down over the same period of WGH increasing.
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Now y’all are tempting me to pop some Dolium! I’m trying to let them rest to 12-15!
Agree 100% on both Jamet points.
It’s my fave Cote Rotie by far.
Jamet to me is the pinnacle. Need to try the Cote-Brune bottle some day.
Hope to get a taste of one of my 2017s soon, once the cellar is complete and my wine is more accessible. My previous experience has been entirely positive, since the first bottle i tried in a Paris restaurant back in 2011. I even enjoyed a bottle of the 2015, though I did not open a different vintage to compare it to at that time. It was good but not profound as some of the previous vintages. And the Dolium I’ve had (twice, can’t recall the vintages) would stand up to the company of most top CRs. The batting average for them fo me is quite high, so I’m hopeful an off vintage or two is the aberration v the norm. Plenty of other winemakers experience the same.
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Possibly, but I don’t think anyone can make a definitive pronouncement until several more years have passed. The good results I’ve had from Dolium thus far leave me hopeful, but the wine will of course have the last word
If anyone is wavering please feel free to stop buying; I would certainly appreciate any reduction in price pressure
Agreed. Hardly able to say something is a flash in the pan when there are only two negative data points you might have out of the last 12 vintages. I’ve had as far back as 99 and they were good (albeit different as his style was a bit different)
I liked the 17 quite a bit in the first year of release. Reminded me a lot of the 13. 13 also shut down hard and fast after the first year.
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I ONLY have 15 and 16, lawyers…can I ask for a refund 