TN: 2016 Pierre Gonon Vin de Pays de l'Ardèche Les Iles Feray

[CFu]

Charlie, I replied to your post, without saying anything about your behaviors, never intending to burden this board with our personal business dealings. However, clearly you felt uncomfortable enough about those matters to launch into the diatribe that you did. “Cowardly?” Have you drunk too much?

Oh lawd. The absolute sense of entitlement is glaring through my monitor and hitting me in the face right now. Do you really believe what you’re saying? You’d have to be absolutely wasted to believe the nonsense you’re posting. If I wasn’t already tired enough with a toddler having stomach issues from antibiotics keeping me up at this hour, I have to now look at this “holier than thou”?

I’ll break it down so you can’t wiggle away from it more.

In CA the retail price was around 42-55. Sucks to be under the thumb of Kermit

I don’t understand this, Charlie. Why should Kermit not price the wines consistent with supply and demand? I know that some would like there to be room in the price such that they can acquire the wines and then sell or trade them for gain, but an importer, which actually has time and capital invested (unlike a flipper), has no obligation, moral or otherwise, to facilitate that activity.

which i did not reply to. Even though it was a jab at me as the only persons who would know, is me and you.

Regarding your second point, I fully agree. Where I have the problem is when consumers who look to sell or trade wine for gain complain about importer pricing. Indeed, we would all like to profit with almost no investment of time or capital, but there should be no expectation of such opportunities.

And there you go. Further directing comments at me, except this time making it more obvious … as I was the one you replied to complaining about importer pricing. You brought our issues into the public. Are you also going to wiggle out of dragging my friend into this too?

[Corey_N]

So ripe fruits but with savory notes and structure? Sounds like an intriguing wine.

[Mike_Evans]

So ripe fruits but with savory notes and structure? Sounds like an intriguing wine.

How dare you interrupt the petty squabbling to actually discuss the wine!

[Corey_N]

So ripe fruits but with savory notes and structure? Sounds like an intriguing wine.

How dare you interrupt the petty squabbling to actually discuss the wine!

There was petty squabbling? I hadn’t noticed.

[Adam_Noble]

I might not have noticed if it was done via IM. That would have been cool. And I personally didn’t recognize anyone calling anyone else out initially-I thought it was just another all too common conversation lamenting the increase in wine prices and reasons for it. Guess I’m pretty dense.

[Adam_Noble]

Oh, full disclosure-I’ve bought wines from Martin and I’d love to have a few bottles with Charlie.

[Adam_Noble]

Further disclosure-I think both Charlie and Martin contribute to both this board and my knowledge of wine, particularly for Burgundy and Northern Rhone. To the detriment of my finances and storage space.

[Markus_S]

I thought we took politics to the POLITICS bored?

[Martin_Steinley]

I might not have noticed if it was done via IM. That would have been cool. And I personally didn’t recognize anyone calling anyone else out initially-I thought it was just another all too common conversation lamenting the increase in wine prices and reasons for it. Guess I’m pretty dense.

Well, no you are not, Adam. I did not identify Charlie and did not intend to do so. I simply responded to his assertion of being under the thumb of Kermit Lynch. No one on the board should have to hear about our personal differences, and I would not have replied to Charlie’s post identifying himself but for his disparagement of me and my business. In all events, both Todd and Charlie have requested/suggested that I not post on board, so I will honor those requests/suggestions.

[CFu]

I might not have noticed if it was done via IM. That would have been cool. And I personally didn’t recognize anyone calling anyone else out initially-I thought it was just another all too common conversation lamenting the increase in wine prices and reasons for it. Guess I’m pretty dense.

Well, no you are not, Adam. I did not identify Charlie and did not intend to do so. I simply responded to his assertion of being under the thumb of Kermit Lynch. No one on the board should have to hear about our personal differences, and I would not have replied to Charlie’s post identifying himself but for his disparagement of me and my business. In all events, both Todd and Charlie have requested/suggested that I not post on board, so I will honor those requests/suggestions.

LOL.

You messaged todd as a threat that you would stop posting because we asked you to stop shilling.

No one suggested or requested you stop posting.

You suggested it after accusing todd of greed.

Your holier than thou revisionist history is astounding.

[ToddFrench]

I might not have noticed if it was done via IM. That would have been cool. And I personally didn’t recognize anyone calling anyone else out initially-I thought it was just another all too common conversation lamenting the increase in wine prices and reasons for it. Guess I’m pretty dense.

Well, no you are not, Adam. I did not identify Charlie and did not intend to do so. I simply responded to his assertion of being under the thumb of Kermit Lynch. No one on the board should have to hear about our personal differences, and I would not have replied to Charlie’s post identifying himself but for his disparagement of me and my business. In all events, both Todd and Charlie have requested/suggested that I not post on board, so I will honor those requests/suggestions.

LOL.

You messaged todd as a threat that you would stop posting because we asked you to stop shilling.

No one suggested or requested you stop posting.

You suggested it after accusing todd of greed.

Your holier than thou revisionist history is astounding.

Martin, at no time did I request/suggest that you do not post on the board, so please stop spreading misinformation

[Robert.A.Jr]

Can we kill this whole thread? The wine sucked anyway, plus it’s not for sale. I like and respect all of you too much for this thread to stand.

[Joe_W_i_n_o_g_r_a_d]

Kermit is notorious for pushing pricing on limited, in demand wines as far as it will go. If you told me that he’s going back to the producer, and paying proportionally more as a result, I’d agree 100%. I doubt that’s happening (though I don’t get to see KL’s books).

This seems a naive assumption. His pricing is posted for all the world to see. Skurnik, Rosenthal and many many others would be thrilled to take over those producer relationships if the producers felt exploited. Demonization of importers as ripping everyone off if they succeed at their mission of generating demand and pricing power for their producers seems misplaced. Id like to hear from a producer who feels that being taken from obscurity to flip-worthy is a bad thing.

Markets are very transparent now, up and down the chain. If you don’t understand and respect the interests of your supplier, you will not keep the relationship. But maybe Marty already said that.

[Marc_Frontario]

Can we kill this whole thread? The wine sucked anyway, plus it’s not for sale. I like and respect all of you too much for this thread to stand.

Todd if u could please move this thread…I think we could all agree it should be moved…to the Parker Forum

[Jay_Miller]

So ripe fruits but with savory notes and structure? Sounds like an intriguing wine.

How dare you interrupt the petty squabbling to actually discuss the wine!

[Robert.A.Jr]

Can we kill this whole thread? The wine sucked anyway, plus it’s not for sale. I like and respect all of you too much for this thread to stand.

Todd if u could please move this thread…I think we could all agree it should be moved…to the Parker Forum

Wasn’t Todd banned from Parker!? .

[Martin_Steinley]

Well, no you are not, Adam. I did not identify Charlie and did not intend to do so. I simply responded to his assertion of being under the thumb of Kermit Lynch. No one on the board should have to hear about our personal differences, and I would not have replied to Charlie’s post identifying himself but for his disparagement of me and my business. In all events, both Todd and Charlie have requested/suggested that I not post on board, so I will honor those requests/suggestions.

LOL.

You messaged todd as a threat that you would stop posting because we asked you to stop shilling.

No one suggested or requested you stop posting.

You suggested it after accusing todd of greed.

Your holier than thou revisionist history is astounding.

Martin, at no time did I request/suggest that you do not post on the board, so please stop spreading misinformation

Bullshit, Todd. You have access to our PM exchange just as I do. If you want to explain the context in which you did it, that’s fine, but don’t deny that you did so.

[ToddFrench]

Bullshit, Todd. You have access to our PM exchange just as I do. If you want to explain the context in which you did it, that’s fine, but don’t deny that you did so.

Ok, let’s go.

From me, May 2nd:

@Todd F r e n c h

Martin,

I’ve received a couple reports about your semi-veiled ‘shilling’ of products you sell, stating also that you sell the wines, which all those I’ve talked to (including 2 moderators) believe is designed to have folks reach out to you to buy them. That’s shilling, in our book, thus if you want to continue, you’ll need to be BerserkerBusiness, as otherwise your posts will be edited by moderators.

Some are more blatant than others, and read as an offer, like this one - https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vi … 0#p2486580 - but regardless, it is our belief that you are using thinly-veiled language to advertise products and/or your shop.

Your reply, same day:

@Martin Steinley

Todd, that is laughable. I have been criticized for shilling if I post about a wine I sell, but don’t mention that I sell it. Now, I mention if I sell any wine I post about, and I am criticized for shilling. Your message and prior ones seem to be a thinly-veiled attempt to generate income. I believe that it is best that I not participate in Wine Talk.

My reply:

@Todd F r e n c h

A member brought up the issue, I asked my moderators for input, all agreed. I didn’t notice it until it was pointed out to me.

With what you said, and your unwillingness to play by the rules others do, perhaps it is best you don’t participate in Wine Talk, as you said.

As you can see, you stated “I believe that it is best that I not participate in Wine Talk”. I replied that if you choose not to play by the rules, perhaps that’s a wise choice on your end. At no time did I suggest or request you stop participating - I quite obviously agreed with YOUR suggestion that you stop, IF you choose to avoid the rules that everybody else follows. Makes sense.

Robert, I apologize that this otherwise valuable thread on a producer I love has gone so far astray.

[Marc_Frontario]

[Marc_Frontario]

Honestly, I do not care who is right or wrong…lets call a truce and get back to wine