Jamie, while I have yet to buy or drink your wines, you are definitely the kind of winemaker I like to support. We have a few passionate pinot producers up this way that I enjoy supporting. And I must say most all pinot drinkers are a passionate lot. Sort of the definition of Berserkers. ![[thankyou.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/d/df165fe9c1593d19166ae7e1ffe5e272089cc07b.gif "thankyou"){kind=small}
I’ll take his. And I’ll take a bottle of each of the other wines you made with different % of WC, and I’ll take some of the Rose, and I’ll take a case of the new Chardonnay, and…
Thanks Patrick! …
Dennis, I myself love the wines from Cristom in OR. A few years ago the owner and winemaker came up to my table at IPNC. They had flattering things to say. It was really cool to be able to taste another producers 100% whole cluster wines from OR. who picked very similarly and had a similar philosophy.
I felt as though when I tasted their wine, that it was obviously their own Oregon terroir expression, but in the form or character or style that I had grown so comfortable with understanding. It tasted or felt like when you meet someone for the first time and it’s so easy to converse with them and they immediately become a friend. It was a beautiful wine and a great experience.
I appreciate your post.
Your 2012 Falstaff may have been the best wine I had all last year. Phenomenal.
Amen! Would love to taste through the WC experiments.
Heck, I am ready to dive into the Chardonnay. I want Patrick’s allocation along with mine. ![[dance-clap.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/8/835ce082e2fa9c96c4b7f96406bf6e9a0db882ff.gif "[dance-clap.gif]"){kind=small}
+1. Did you happen to bottle some of those experiments?
No, but maybe I should!
Bottle in splits and offer it as a 5 pack.
Sounds a little gimmicky, yet it would open up so many peoples senses and prove the point.
I of course will consider it Rama. Thanks for asking and posting.
Perhaps not worth your time and efforts. However, as anecdotal evidence, one of my earliest and fondest wine tasting memories was of a producer who aged his chardonnay in barrels from two different coopers. It was an eye (and wallet) opener that led me to arrive at the same conclusions he did. It was no longer a leap of faith in his decisions, but an affirmation his choices were the same as mine. Jedi mind tricks at their finest.
I was half joking about wanting the experimental wines figuring you had long since sold the juice off, do you seriously still have it? If so sampler packs would be incredible.
Don’t know if you saw Eric Keating’s Berserker Day specials, but he did a similar concept where the only variable was the wood treatment he did on his Montecillo Canernet (edit: here is the link to that: http://store.keatingwines.com/2012-oak-series-cabernet-sauvignon-4-pack-p89.aspx) That level of education in a bottle is really cool for us super nerds and I know I would buy a couple packs if something like that existed.
Jamie,
Love the discussion and the honesty. I remember seeing your interview a few years back at IPOB where you talked about stem inclusion, and debunked the concept that the stems need to be lignified in order to be used. Love it!
I too have taken a similar journey, though with Rhone varieties. I’ve been intrigued by stem inclusion and had been ‘worried’ because of what others had said these stems would add - a greenness, a bitterness, the pH would rise precipitously, and I’d lose color.
Back in 09, I did quite a bit of experimentation with both grenache and syrah, and it took about 36 months for me to realize how the stems had completely ‘transformed’ these wines and ‘added that third dimension’ to quote you 
So in 2013, nearly all of my wines, with the exception of petite Sirah and one of my 4 Mourvèdres, was done 100% whole cluster, with me doing all of the foot stomping - about 15-20 min. per 1/2 ton bin. And in both 14 and 15, ALL of my reds have been 100% whole cluster.
To me, and it seems like you agree, both mouthful and aromas are kicked up a bit, addING other layers of complexity . . .
Can’t wait to try your current releases at Falltacular in a few weeks, my friend.
Cheers.
I don’t take free bottles, especially from winemakers who use social media / message boards to pimp their wines.
I also don’t think there’s any need to respond further in this thread, since your post evidences so clearly what I’ve been saying for years - that stems are decoration for wine, just like oak, and just like a wine can be overoaked, a wine can be overstemmed.
What I reject - and your post asserts - is that because stems come from the vine, they are an acceptable form of decoration, while oak, since it comes from trees, is somehow less acceptable. It think that’s total bullshit - just rationalizing your personal preferences as objective truth.
I personally don’t love a ton of stems in pinot, and I especially don’t like the lean/less ripe/high stem expression of Pinot, which I think ages poorly based on experiences with Burgundy producers in that vernacular. But I also don’t love a ton of oak in Pinot - though my oak tolerance is vastly higher than my stem preference, which is just my personal palate. (Folks who drink with me can attest to my sensitivity to the presence of stems in PN; for me, they are so powerful that in large doses they obscure the underlying wine.)
The difference is that I recognize my stem-aversion in PN to be personal preference; you assert your stem preference as objective quality based on some bullshit notion of terroir. That’s great marketing but its shitty logic.
Yet you did anyway.
Further means, “after this”, you silly pedant.
Silly duck…
I’ll trust a winemaker before I trust a guy who clearly doesn’t like wine all that much.
How did you take Jamie’s stance to be objective? He goes out of his way to say for his tastes and his style…
Winemakers can’t win around here. If they post, they are called pimps, terms that are disrespectful. If they do post, then they have to be careful what they say, lest they cross some line and be called something by a poster. Or, they don’t post to avoid the whole quandary that is evident here, only to have others wonder why winemakers don’t post more here.
David, the way you treat others here (and them you, to be fair) are reasons why I’m down to simply using this forum to post TNs and organize my charity event. Calling people names, as others have done to you, is crappy decorum.
David,
A few points here:
Jamie never said stems were ‘decorative’ at all, and he never implied oak was. Both inherently ‘change’ a wine, but in rather different ways. Both are used by winemakers to ‘increase complexity’ and ‘add layers’ to a wine. Not decorative at all. Sorry, but the term ‘decorative’ as it applies to wine has more to do with packaging than it does to winemaking.
As far as stems vs. new oak, Jamie was expressing his preferences, based on not only consuming wines but also making them. These are HIS opinions and you can choose to agree or not, as you should. Everyone is allowed and should come up to their own conclusions - and as far as I can see, he never states that if you disagree with him that you are wrong.
It’s cool that you recognize that you are ‘stem averse’, but what I’ve found over the past decade is that, if done well, stem inclusion does NOT stick out like a sore thumb, say as 100% new oak might. Have I had wines that I didn’t know had a lot of stem inclusion and I picked them out because I could tell they did? Yes - but just as often, if not more so, winemakers and others have poured me wines that the stems have been so well integrated that you could not tell. Pax Mahle has been quite successful I believe in achieving this.
And to finish, Jamie never said anything about ‘objective’. Here is his last paragraph verbatim:
There is no wrong or right in wine. Everything above is an opinion. Drink what you like. My journey of 11 years making wine and 20 years of hardcore exploration and drinking has taken me to this point. I make wines for my own taste. Hopefully others find as much pleasure in them as I do.
What am I missing here??!!?
Cheers