Be curious to hear your take on these vintages, especially on the comment of ascendency. The 2014 and 2015 vintages are very different: classic versus ripe. I like them both very much, I mean really, when is Chinon every truly too ripe, but 2014 is a notch above. I bought some 2016 Baudry cuvees as well but have not loaded up beyond that. I have stoopid amounts of Chinon, lol. Or as my wife just told me as we plan for Thanksgiving, “you have tons of wine and nothing that anyone likes.” I was amused. She was not.
Well, “possibly” is because I don’t actually know. I’ve tasted some 14s and 15s and my impression so far is that 14 is “our” sort of vintage, fresh, crisp, with a tinge of green, with 15 a little riper and possibly better in the long run. As for 2016 and 2017, and even more 2018, I’m going on discussions with wine merchants, along with the limited critical reviews seen. As you know, the only real guide is Chris Kissack, who does a great job, but he’s on his own, in every sense, so his coverage is not truly comprehensive, not made easier by the fact that most Loire producers don’t have well-stocked cellars, they sell the lot.
He visited Joguet recently, rating very highly the 2016s (eg 95 for Chêne Vert), but slightly higher the 2017s (Dioterie 96-98)and higher still the 2018s (Dioterie 97-99). In previous years, Dioterie 14 was rated 17.5-18.5, the 2015 was rated 97…so basically they’re all very good indeed.
I’m picking them all up as they appear on the market, in slightly higher quantities than I normally would, simply because prices for older vintages are steadily increasing, so as in the olden days with Bordeaux, there’s the possibility of paying for your wine by selling what you don’t need later on.
Another pointer towards 2017 is the fact that Yannick Amirault released Le Pavillon du Grand Clos for the first time since 2010.
The real deal at the moment is Coteau de Noiré by Alliet, which is a lot cheaper than the Joguets (25€ as opposed to 35€). His 2005 changed hands this week for a staggering 100€ a bottle at auction. As for older Joguet prices, your mind would boggle.
All this means that I’m going to replace those pesky RB 2005s with some nice green Loire reds! And yes, I get the same flack as you do - “Why do have to buy all those crappy Loire reds that only you like!” The trials and tribulations of being a Loire fan.
Ha, that’s the story of my entire cellar. Stuff I love but the vast majority I look at and think, “now what here can I serve at a dinner party? Hmm, almost nothing is a crowd pleaser”. Although I did open a 2017 Lambert Breze for a few people recently and everyone loved it. One of the most floral Cab Francs I’ve had in quite some time.
Wow, those ratings on the Dioterie are the highest that I have ever seen on Joguet! That’s Rougeard territory. I used to follow Chris and subscribed once given his excellent coverage, but fell off a few years ago. With no disrespect intended by asking, but is there some grade inflation here - something we all know has happened with virtually every critic - or are these really the best Joguet wines ever? I’ve been 95 a few times on Joguet, and all from the 2005 vintage and then I think the 1990 Dioterie.
I have a six pack of mixed Joguet cuvees from 95/96 coming in next week, eager to try them.
Will you be at the winery? If so, they have a bunch of back vintages available. When I was there in June I bought 2010 and 2015 Clos de la Dioterie (they were pouring the 2015 to taste), and also bought 2004 Varennes Franc de Pied and 2010 Varennes. If I had more room in my suitcase, I would have bought more.
I don’t see CK as the sort of critic who would push up his scores. Basically the years 14-18 and possibly 19 represent the best run ever in the Loire - lucky us! The pros and cons of each will provide hours of fun for all in the future.
In the meantime lucky you with those older vintages to enjoy!
Jay that 2004 Franc de Pied is excellent, with the 2005 being as good as any Loire I’ve had. Sadly the Franc de Pied vineyard is gone, succumbed to the louse, with 2007 being the last.
If any of you ever see the Franc de Pied, just grab it. It’s special.
Jay, good to know, but unfortunately not. I will visit the importer who I was told has some. I don’t think it sells out fast (or at least, I hope so), so should be fine.
Thanks Robert. I’m looking forward to drinking it in the near future. I’m aware that the vineyard is unfortunately no longer. Perhaps a return trip to the winery is in order to pick up more bottles!
I was really surprised at how many back vintages were available that at both the winery and their shop in Chinon at what I think were quite reasonable prices.
So it is the 2013 Clos de la Dioterie I bought, the most recent vintage they received. Let’s see what that gives, in a supposedly not great vintage. Price was reasonable (around 30 USD or even less I believe) so not really a big risk.
I’m a fan of most of the wines mentioned in this thread - though I must confess I’ve not yet pulled the trigger on a Rougeard…
I will be in the Loire just after New Years with my wife and preteen kids. They will give me leeway for one or two winery visits. Would love to hear from folks on this thread if there are any particularly interesting ones to see…
The Loire is a pretty big region, so let us know where you are based. Eg it’s a 3 hour drive from Saumur to Sancerre, so not sure you want to visit a domaine in each of those regions in a day!
Robert A:
I was tracking a 2004 and 2007 Lenoir on WineBid. They started at $35 and $30. I figured they’d hedge up to around $40. Already bid up to $90. Insane. These are very good wines but not $90, IMHO. I’ve had both the 04 and 05, and would have liked more.
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I put this here to avoid thread drift!
It’s the same over here - both sold recently for 90€ at auction. Mad.
Clos de la Dioterie 1990 is changing hands for around 200€, even reaching 240€ back in April. Same for the 1989. I’m sure they’re great wines, but when you know you can pick up Clos de L’Echo 89 for 50€ or less, it does make you think!
Yes it’s fascinating to me. I recently picked up like 6-8 bottles of Joguet, including some 95s and 95s, off WineBid for half and less than what the Lenoir is now bidding at. I think these Joguet cuvees, Dioterie and Chene Vert, are better wines.
I think the gulf between the prices that Clos Rougeard sells for and all the other wines has created a sort of vacuum, which is sucking in older Joguet vintages. The other auction « star » here is the estate run by Foucault’s son, Domaine du Collier - ever tried it?
How have you liked them? It was a tough period for the domaine.
It’s been a very long time since I’ve had these two vintages, so interested to see. The price was right!
Sorry - should have been more specific… focused towards the east - Chinon, Saumur, etc. Appreciate any suggestions!
Just enjoyed the 2009 Clos du Chene Vert cuvée over the course of two nights. Archetype Chinon, as this cuvée always tends to be. Really good.
Drank a bottle tonight. Lovely stuff.
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