Lots of wines have brett, most right bank Bordeaux do, some have tons. I say clean because I’ve discussed this with Matthieu a couple of times and he keeps a very close eye on brett through lab analysis and it is very low. I don’t have the numbers in front of me or whether I’m someone who knows what they’re talking about but that’s I know to be true.
Very interesting! I sometimes wonder if we don’t confuse brett with funk, but I certainly don’t believe I’ve had many Loire reds that suffer from brett, apart from Jacky Blot’s wines. The reds I’ve had the most in recent years are the Coulys, which like the 2010 Clos de L’Echo last night, have never had a whiff or taste of brett, but perhaps I just don’t notice it.
Something else to keep in mind is the vegatative edge to all cabernet as well as franc’s tendency towards reduction. Personally, I find it hard to disentangle brett and reduction sometimes.
Like Nathan & Robert, I never get brett on Baudry. They are clean wines. And oh-so-pure. Perhaps you’re confusing Loire cab franc stink with brett?
I often wonder whether people confuse pyrazine and Brett. I am just opining here, as clearly it could be my palate that is stunted, or we just simply all perceive things a bit differently. It’s just funny to me, as I truly do believe Baudry is the purest, cleanest producer in Loire Cab Franc. I like them all, however.
I think it’s safe to say people confuse just about everything for just about everything else 
The last time I tasted one, there was not only brett, but also significant bacterial issues, with such a strong mousy taint that I had to immediately taste another wine to get rid of that awful flavor. None of these things have anything to do with pyrazines (which I’m well aware can taste smoky, but it’s a different type of smoke than what brett creates). Have you considered that, with your preferences, you might smell and taste brett byproducts (4-EP, 4-EG) a LOT less strongly than some other people? That would have absolutely nothing to do with your tasting abilities (“stunted palate”). I agree with your opinions on Bordeaux most of the time. Certain wines just taste very different to you than they do to me. This is a lot like the debates about 2004 red Burgundies and whether or not greenness is an issue in certain wines. People perceive certain things more than a bit differently.
I’m drinking Laphroiag right now. My wife just told me my palate is horrible, “that stuff is rank!”
Basically, whether we can identify brett, pyrazines, bacteria, reduction, smoke or funk seems to be personal and subjective. I have no idea what I’m capable of identifying in that list, apart from very occasionally brett. I can certainly taste and smell oak, mocha and high alcohol! The bottom line is, we either enjoy a wine, or we don’t. Some of us are better at describing that enjoyment than others, but with only one or two exceptions, none of us are pros, we’re just keen amateurs. At the moment, there are not many guides to Loire reds, so WB has become a rare source of information and I’m always grateful to read many WB posters’ write-ups.
Well said, Doug!
The old vintages that Charles Joguet did before selling (up to 1997, I think?) can rival clos rougeard. His 1990 Varennes franc de pied is the best can franc I’ve ever had, on par with 2002 rougeard bourg but ahead of any cheval blanc and other rougeard I can think of. Sadly the market has now figured it out and any bottle of 1989 or 1990 joguet coming up at auction (rare occurence) goes for Rougeard kind of money.
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ITB
Hi Tomas -
Here are some notes from a couple years ago when I popped a 1990 Joguet with some other Loire icons, all wonderful stuff:
Started with the 1990 Joguet Les Varennes du Grand Clos and a 1990 Olga Raffault Chinon Les Picasses. These are mature and quite different expressions of Cab Franc, both outstanding. The Joguet is a prettier, more vibrant, silky wine. Gorgeous, ripe display of red fruits. The Raffault is that archetype, old school Chinon, showing the more classic expression of ash, tobacco, herbaceousness, forest floor and a hint of barn. Leaner, more crisp than the Joguet, and showing more dark fruits, but the Joguet is just a prettier wine.
The 2003 and 2005 Clos Rougeard Saumur-Champigny Les Poyeaux are another level of Cab Franc, completely living up to their vaunted billing. Tooch opened these several hours before he came over, so they got some air, but both are still quite youthful. The 2003 beautifully expresses the ripeness of the vintage, a very opulent style of Loire Cab Franc without being over the top. Nice delineation of red-to-dark, tart-to-sweet fruits. Quite herbaceous, meaty, veggies, like a beef barley soup. The 2005 is more backward and quite structured. This wine needs considerable time. It will be the better wine over the 2003 in time, that 2003 is just so damn sexy right now. I love the firm structure of this 2005, the archetype Loire Cab Franc elements, and the depth to this wine is amazing. I’ve never had a Rougeard with 20+ years on it - compared to having tried many other Loires of that or great maturity - but truly believe these wines will hit higher highs once fully evolved. That compels me to sit on my small stash, I may move them to back storage.
This was not the Franc de Pied bottling. I’ve had some years, including 2005, which are among the best Loire Cab Franc that I have had. Cannot believe I paid $25 for that 2005. Should have bought boatloads. And should have sat on more.
What do you mean by Laporte Cab Franc?
Joguet FDP certainly is expensive - I finally managed to get one at a reasonable price this week - the 04. Fingers crossed! As for the older Joguets, FDP or not, as Thomas says, they have rocketed at auction. Even younger ones rise considerably after release.
Typo. Meant “Loire” not “Laporte”. Had to have been an autocorrect from iPhone…
Perhaps people are confusing brett with funk because that’s what they want to see. That cuts both ways so I wouldn’t just dismiss people that talk about a favorite producer in a way you do not favor as not knowing how to taste.
But I would also point out that I don’t think of brett free as “clean”. That implies that having brett means ‘dirty’. I don’t think of brett that way. It’s certainly is if the brett infections cause a bloom and overwhelm the wine. At a low level it’s not a problem for me.
I’ve had Baudry bottles where it was a low level and I was down with it. I’ve also had them where it overwhelmed the wine, quashing all other expression. When I had that more than once I simply put the label in a taste before buy category. It’s not a condemnation of a brand.
I hope my comments on this thread are not interpreted as suggesting divergent opinions mean one cannot taste, and if I somehow said that, I do apologize. I know you like Loire, Chris, and always appreciate your posts.
Not at all.
Robert, I’ll see if I can buy some tomorrow to try (in 10 years?). Need to look which vintage of the Clos de la Dioterie is available, but if 2017, would you rather wait for 2018? Curious to try. Usually stick with Roches Neuves (which I actually like young, they are quite polished wines) and Rougeard. Thanks.
I’ve not followed 2017 and 2018 prognostications but I’d try to grab some 2014 or 2015 if still available. I like both vintages, for difference reasons.
I like Roches Neuves as well, but Dioterie is another level IMHO. And yes, the Roches Neuves all do seem to drink very well young. I don’t think that I’ve had one over 5 years. I love their Franc de Pieds, so fresh.
And above all of them, Rougeard reigns supreme. It has no compare in Loire.
2016 has only just been released, so 2017 and 2018 will be some time in coming. From what I’ve heard, all vintages are very good from 2014 to 2018, possibly in ascending order, but the lack of much critical coverage makes this difficult to be sure about. I would certainly get some 2014 and 2015 and maybe try other wines like Alliet’s, which are slightly cheaper.