TN: 2007 Domaine du Pégaü Châteauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée Réservée

WINE TALK
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[quote=“P.Sunesen”]Neal, I agree that brett is part of the package with Pegau, but brett in very small quantities will merely impart the wine with more complexity (at least to most tasters)/quote]

I am not one of those tasters. Any detectable level of brett is a flaw, to me. A producer who intentionally uses brett the way a cook uses pepper is a producer for whom I have no use

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Whilst I am probably at the opposite end of the spectrum, in actively liking it in moderate+ amounts and only in very extreme cases does it become problematic.

Lucky for me, but commiserations to you Neal. Undoubtedly frustrating.

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Or oxidized due to poor corks (grenache is vulnerable to oxygen). Or any number of other reasons. There’s no reason all bottles have to be consistent after 10 years, particularly with high potency grenaches.

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To my tastes, and at this stage of it’s life, this is a very weak vintage of Pegau. It was likely better young, and I hope it gets better as it ages, but I don’t see that happening. I hope I am wrong.

  • 2007 Domaine du Pégaü Châteauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée Réservée - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Châteauneuf-du-Pape (2/11/2017)
    Lots of talk on WB about this wine so I figured I might as well try one. I am a fan of this producer as I don’t find them to be as over the top as many CdP’s and I don’t mind a little Brett. This was decanted for about an hour and it really wasn’t until it had seen two or three hours of air did it drink at it’s best. Early on the wine was unbalanced. It seemed hot and a bit hollow in the middle. The fruit is ripe and dark in tone. More bretty to me than normal, showing iodine and a little sweaty saddle leather. With air, the wine fleshed out and became better balanced and more enjoyable. But overall, the wine was just ok, and probably my least favorite vintage over the last 10-12 years. I prefer so called off vintages like 04, 06, 08, 11, etc.

I think I have three left and I am not sure what to do with them, honestly. If I had a case I would probably sell. I’ll likely hold and drink them over the next ten years as an experiment and so I can participate in the debate. I need to check in our 07 Vieux Donjon, VT and St. Prefert now.

We had this one along with the Pegau.

  • 2007 Domaine de la Presidente Côtes du Rhône Villages Cairanne Grands Classiques - France, Rhône, Southern Rhône, Côtes du Rhône Villages Cairanne (2/11/2017)
    A $14, 86 point wine that I enjoyed more than the acclaimed 07 Pegau CdP. This was more elegant, balanced, and clean without being hot or overripe.
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I had the 07 Vieux Donjon last night, and it was much like Tim’s 07 Pegau. My bottle at least was in pristine condition, but something is off as lots of people are quite high on it per Cellar Tracker.

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Hi Pat,

How do know that your bottle was in pristine condition?

Was it transported from France with a data logger to tell you that the it wasn’t subjected to heat during transport?

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Popped a cork on this wine last night. For another data point I have to agree with the tenor of most of the posts. The wine seemed alcoholic, fruit faded, and a bit of volatility that indicated a somewhat dying quail. I enjoyed this wine immensely on release, very Aussie Shiraz- like with a more earthy soul. This was stored pristinely, controlled temp since release,no cork issues and was definitely not wet cardboard…Sad really as I have 3 more left. Will likely park them for awhile but I don’t think this is a dumb phase, more like advanced deterioration. I am re thinking aging any wines with a high grenache percentage and high alcohol. Maybe poorer candidates for aging???

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Yes.

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Not exactly, Pegau seems to fluctuate quite a bit in price from vintage to vintage, for example, good luck finding the 2010 under $80 - its a terrific wine btw.

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[welldone.gif] that’s the way to go, so much CdP get killed during transport, so good to know your bottle wasn’t.
Just sad hat you didn’t like it.
Will taste it again soon, been a while since last time…

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I don’t like these wines anyway, but for me there’s little use in a wine that is so delicate that one has to hand carry it home from the domaine in order to have a chance at a decent bottle.

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There was hail in '14 – a difficult vintage in CdP.

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I thought alcohol was a preservative [wink.gif] [stirthepothal.gif] [smileyvault-ban.gif]

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I’m with you here, but when you think of how fashionable natural- and orange wines have become you really wonder when hitsfan

35

As I get older I wonder why we make so much of an obsession about many older wines. I have begun to think that my problem through the years is that I have bought too many wines on release, and due to fear of not “ever seeing that wine again”, and hang on too to them too long. Wine is designed for the most part to be ephemeral, a gorgeous flower, then simply tossed out in the rubbish heap when the bottle is gone. I think the entire hobby of ours would have been so much better off without the speculators runninng up prices of older wines to the absurd levels where almost NO ONE (except the 12 angry men) ever drink them?
2007 Pegau may be a marker for me…good vintage on release, but risky to age too long. Now where are my 2001 CdP’s? Time to start drinking!!!


There is probably no greater wisdom than the words “there is always the next vintage”. I am desperately trying to remember this when the new offers continue to stream out for 2015 Burgundies.

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I think you’d be wise to do that. I’ve had a couple of individual bottles that were past it.

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Hi Dennis
For a number of wines, your challenge is a good one. For me those wines aiming to be open and especially ‘hedonistic’ on release often succeed, but that’s all too often their high water mark. A trade-off between the here and now vs. the future. Conversely those wines with searing acidity and hard tannins can be pretty unpleasant when young, yet with long age can really blossom. Hunter Semillon is another good example in white wines. The great Hunter Semillons are a pretty uninspiring prospect when young, lean, acidic, no great complexity. With extended age (and an effective seal!) they develop wonderful complexity and a better overall balance for drinking. On the flip side, Barossa Semillon often gave it the oak treatment and achieved much easier ripeness. Pretty much ready to go on release, but never hit the same heights.

Why are old wines so expensive? Some aren’t, and there are still canny buys to be had, but for anything with a modest to grand reputation the key elements appear to be:

  • Rarity, with not that many bottles left in circulation
  • Cellaring costs. If someone pays $1-2 cellaring per bottle per year, then they want a return on that as well as the original purchase / opportunity cost
  • Sometimes there is ‘cherry picking’, such that bottles with bad ullage never make it to market (not always true!!) and only the better looking bottles get on the list of certain sellers.
  • The market involved in getting a wine from original seller to the punter, can mean 2-3 different parties get their cut, e.g. wine trader, auction house, rare wine merchant/restaurant.
  • (Tread gently here Ian) Economic changes with a greater % of very/super rich has driven up costs of the ‘best of the best’. More people are now chasing those elusive prestige / rare bottles. This hits current prices, but also has a very significant effect on the ‘fine and rare’ market.

regards
Ian

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of course there are the tiny percentage of wines that demand extra time in the cellar to show well. Don’t dispute that. However, for me, at least personally, I think a lot of wines are simply held too long. The Grenache based wines of CdP are the current example we are discussing, but isn’t there TOO much focus on the boards about many older wines that are the tiniest of percentage of production? Maybe it is just the overfocus on “rarest, most expensive wines” that draws eyeballs and clicks.

Suppose my point is simply, do many collectors (mea culpa) waste too much money gambling on perfectly fine young wines sitting in cellars that are not likely to really be much better with time? I know this is obviously your business interest, and more power to you. Yet, I have made a commitment in 2017 to quit sitting on so many bottles, buy less at release, and enjoy wine on the way up the aging curve a lot more. I am aware this is not an original thought, but it still seems that many folks just persist, like a lab rat hitting the food bar over and over again in a maze, on holding wines we know we probably shouldn’t. (Poster child, white Burgundy post 1995)

Cheers!

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Currency is down 30% from the heyday as well…

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And yet Burgundy continues to increase. Boooo!!!