TN: 2004 Jacques-Frédéric Mugnier Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Clos de la Maréchale

WINE TALK
21

Agree the 2004 Jacques-Frédéric Mugnier Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru Les Amoureuses two months ago was great [cheers.gif]

22

I have a cool cellar 10-12C. Sure it is an 04 but the point of the note is that the GM notes are evolving into something very attractive as one would expect. Another 04 I had recently was the 2004 Domaine Perrot-Minot Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru La Richemone Cuvée Ultra and the same could be said for that, it is a great wine. The 04 DRC’s had strong vintage characters and more recent notes on them are very positive. I guess if you like all your wines the same you will never like 04’s, GMs or not.

23

Sure and you would be silly to open them alongside 05’s. The contrast is that big it would make both wines lesser.

24

Different bottles of the same wine can taste different. Different tasters have different palates.

And we are surprised that there are differences of opinion, and take them personally? Weird.

25

This is really offensive in English english. Maybe it reads differently in American. We will leave aside your resistance to the idea that wine is something that can change its characteristics with age.

26

Mike, I last tried a bottle of the Marechale about a year ago. I agree there are many factors involved in the drinking and aging of wine, especially in problem years like the 2004 red Burgundies. I have one more to try and will see how it goes, probably later this year. I also bought a few Lafarge grand cru’s from that year, one of which I tried and was really green (young too, but that’s another topic!): I am hoping the other two will somehow turn out better; we’ll see, right?

27

Yes - vintage 1994. WS’s Burgundy reviewer ( I forget his name ) was reporting of greenliness in DRC 1994 red and commented why the wines were bottled.

LCBO’s DRC 1994s were still on their shelves for at least 2 years after their release and finally they did a fire sale including the LT.

28

2004 reds is just barely 10. [soap.gif]

Please keep the better part of your favourite village wines from vintage 2004 …at least 23
more months until 2016… [cheers.gif]

How about please also keep the better part of all your favourites 1ieme cru wines and g-cru from vintage 2004 at least 5 more years until 2019… champagne.gif

29

Tom,

I am not at all resistant to the idea that wine can changes as it ages. I had my first bottle of this wine in 2006, and my most recent in December '12. It did change. It lost fruit and became even more green.

I have actually been a defender of the few non-GM '04s, but this wine has been consistently and badly marked.

As for the offensiveness of my comment, I apologize for upsetting your delicate sensibilities. :wink:

30

David…said :
As for the offensiveness of my comment, I apologize for upsetting your delicate sensibilities.

[welldone.gif] !!!

Yes - Tom is a very delicate gentleman as he adores Burgundy wines with more than 20 years of age…(minimum) grouphug .

31

Sorry Peter, but 94s never tasted/smelled like 04s (and like many early 11s already do). A bit green as in under-ripe perhaps like some 98/08s and often rather dull (no energy) but they never had the smell that is so very different about 04/11…

32

Sorry Peter, but 94s never tasted/smelled like 04s (and like many early 11s already do).

Yes - very truly and the truth got to be told !

Just curious, when will we ever find any burgundy vintage tasted/smelled alike because 2 weathers are never alike in the Kingdom of Burgundy bearing in mind, we age too.

1994 is 20 years ago…and wished I could still smell and swhirled my Burgundy like when vintage 1994 was released !

Now…seriously, please give me a greenliness of any old ( repeat : old ) vintage as similar to that of 2004 !!!

33

A bit green as in under-ripe perhaps like some 98/08s and often rather dull (no energy) but they never had the smell that is so very different about 04/11…

Very interesting comments.

Please give specific examples of which red wines from 1998/2008…which were/are a big green as in under-ripe. I asked because prodcuers checked the ripeness days during harvest time.

Generalization of a vintage characters is interesting…but I do not buy that idea as I sincerely believe in producers, producers…

34

I agree Bill, and our other point of agreement is that the 04 problem is nothing to do with greenness. What I do remember is how awful 94s were at ten years old, browning, drying out and seemingly at death’s door. Nowadays most 94s I come across(they tend to be only from good sources) have a great deal of genuinely burgundian pleasure to offer, and are so much fresher than they were ten years ago. What surprises me just a little, with what seems to me your exceptional grasp of the way red burgundy ages, is your rejection of the idea that salvation is possible in a similar way for 2004, which disregarding this particular problem(a large thing to disregard, certainly) is a very much better vintage than 94.

35

1992 and 1994 were the off-vintage of the early 1990s.

There is no such thing as allocations when 1994 were released in Canada. I bought a total of 62 bs of red - from DRC, Leroy, Rousseau, Vogue and G. Mugneret - for comparative tastings of the same wines of different vintage years.

So my experience with 1994s were limited to the high-end producers only.

With regards to 2004 red …I bought 89 bs and now only one b left in my cellar.

36

The 92s that survive, I find genuinely rather nice Peter - sweet fruit and good energy. 94 has to (generally) improve quite a lot to reach that good standard.

37

Yes - a mistake in my early Burgundy life in that I did not buy too many bottles of 92 red ( as I spent most of my money on white for vintage 1992.

Now let go back to 2011 reds. They are starting to arrive in Canada now. Faiveley g-crus have been on the shelves for quite a while and they are still there ( whereas the same wines from vintage 2010 were gone with a month ).

The wine market is extememly slow here so why should one buy 2011 reds is beyond me as we still have some 2010 and 2009 left.

So far I only bought a few bottles of Bouchard – Macon red.

38

But Mike,

Jancis said:
“similarly high-acid 1996 vintage in Burgundy has proved so much less rewarding than it seemed at first, there is a certain wariness about acidity in Burgundy, and much more detailed consideration of the precise level of antioxidant sulphur additions necessary to preserve the wine during ageing. The 2004s don’t look suitable for particularly long-term cellaring”
Does more sulphur = more shit ?

Bill said:
“that 2004 is the worst recent vintage for red wine in Burgundy. The weather was not good - lots of rain and a lot of rot. But that in itself is probably not the biggest problem with the 2004’s. As Bill Nanson of Burgundy Report first wrote about, ladybugs were all over the vineyards in 2004. I heard that they were released to combat some or other aphid, but I cannot substantiate that claim. In any case, when ladybugs are trying to attract a mate or are under duress, they release a chemical of a class called methoxy-pyrazines. This chemical can cause off aromas in wine that are often described as green. But not in the unripe sense, in otherwise ripe wines, it is a vegetal, raw cedar, seaweedy, unpleasant aroma and taste. Anyway, the ladybugs, and if not the bugs then the chemicals they released, ended up mixed in with the grapes as they fermented. Not in every wine, obviously, but in some - perhaps as many as 30% of total red wines were affected.

39

Hi Wayne, sure they did but I don’t have to agree with them. As you know I drink a shit load of burgundy and am quite capable of assessing a wine for myself. The top 96’s are great wines and nowhere near ready due to the acidity. I certainly have not seen any sulphur issues.
Jancis reference to the acids in 04 only suggest they will be longer lived wines than expected. Structurally many are sound, it is only a flavour that people have an issue with and really wine is all about structure and 04 is not too bad, certainly much better than a vintage like 1997.
Pyrazines are natural so Bill’s theory is by no means generally accepted. It is not as if ladybug are unique to 04 sthey are in the vineyards vintage to vintage. DRC and others have the resource to handle pests but all their wines pretty much had the character. Some people are sensitive to GMs, others like me and I think Tom, like cooler vinous characters every now and then, and know the wines evolve into something attractive. I see it in this wine. Cheers Mike

40

Jancis is hopeless on Burgundy. Bill is not. We shall see. I know plenty of distinguished burgundians who think the ladybird theory is nonsense, but I don’t dismiss it so lightly.