Three OR pinot comparisons

[brigcampbell]

Brian, I see your comment regarding new oak as a selling point relevant in the napa cab world. Also because new oak cost so much.

How about 200% new oak pinot noir?

• 2014 Alma Rosa Pinot Noir 44th Anniversary - USA, California, Central Coast, Sta. Rita Hills (2/12/2018)
  12 months in new oak and then racked off and aged another 12 months in new oak? That doesn’t sound like a great idea… What do I know, they actually pulled this off. Intense floral and berry nose. Concentrated. Creamy Raspberry and vanilla flavors with a slick mouthfeel. While not my preferred style, it was the gangs favorite of the lineup.

Posted from CellarTracker

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

How about 200% new oak pinot noir?

Some fine discussion about oak here. Stems, WC and Oak…I’ve definitely mixed them up and surely will again. I’ve enjoyed 50% “new” that weren’t bothersome at all…and 0% that screamed of wood. Almost given up asking about it. Early judgments are also problematic…sometimes the young Pinot seems overpowered and the next day (year, 5 years, more, etc.), it’s fine. I wind up trusting the producer and experience nearly as much as my palate. Such an incredibly tricky balancing act to predict what a particular barrel (lot) might do and whether the effects will be too little, too much or just right. Not to mention the vagaries of the consumer with many loving oak, and some shying away.

RT

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

My turning point was in accepting that a lot of Grand Cru and Premier Cru Burgundy is raised in high percentages of new wood.

I also saw that the first vintage that I felt the new barriques were best in my wines was 2007. Prior to that, they were(IMO) there to be blended away so that I could have the 1 and 2 fill barrels that I preferred. 2007 helped me to realize that I did not agree with the “big wines can handle new wood” idea.

As I moved to wines more focused on dry extract and lower alcohols, as well as bigger barrels, I started to see the wines absorb the wood in a different way. It also became obvious that Durant vineyard, with the deeper volcanic soils, typically has plenty of texture and richness, and does not have the same bittering components found in the wines from shallower soils like Whistling Ridge and Temperance Hill. Durant and Fir Crest both accumulate sugars the quickest, and we work hard to get them ripe without letting the Brix escalate but it rarely seems a good idea, even at high whole cluster to put them into new wood.

Whistling Ridge and Temperance Hill are almost the opposite. Both are wind affected, so skins are thicker and more bitter. Both get lots of sun exposure on the fruit increasing quality of flavor and tannin but also increasing tannins. And both accumulate sugars late, and while Temperance Hill will generally not be ripe until the potential alcohols are 13-13.5%, but at Whistling Ridge Pinot Noir can be ready to pick at 12.0-13.0% and those wines, rather than being overwhelmed by the new wood, absorb and integrate the 500L puncheons remarkably well.

[brigcampbell]

My turning point was in accepting that a lot of Grand Cru and Premier Cru Burgundy is raised in high percentages of new wood.

DRC is 100% new oak

I’ve tasted 3-4 bottles, with 20 years of age, and I’d never guess that.

[Jim_Anderson]

My turning point was in accepting that a lot of Grand Cru and Premier Cru Burgundy is raised in high percentages of new wood.

DRC is 100% new oak

I’ve tasted 3-4 bottles, with 20 years of age, and I’d never guess that.

Tons of Burgundies are.

[Dav1d_Sawyer]

of the three wineries, I think in general Patricia Green benefits the most from a decent amount of cellar time, all the way up and down the lineup. they evolve really well and are pretty big as far as Oregon goes for the first few years. it makes me sometimes feel exactly as you described but it incorporates so well over time and really smooths the edges and integrates well.

for the record, im not saying that Goodfellow does NOT benefit from aging. but I think you get a better sense of the wines from Goodfellow right outta the gate than you do PGC due to the style.

Agree with Matt’s conclusions completely. PGC wines NEED time before they integrate and really show their stuff in my experiences. Goodfellow wines are certainly much better with age but they are more approachable young than PGC. I don’t think Eyrie really shows well young either FWIW.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

My turning point was in accepting that a lot of Grand Cru and Premier Cru Burgundy is raised in high percentages of new wood.

DRC is 100% new oak

I’ve tasted 3-4 bottles, with 20 years of age, and I’d never guess that.

Tons of Burgundies are.

DRC at 100% new wood and 100% whole cluster was definitely one that changed my ideas about new wood.

[brigcampbell]

DRC is 100% new oak

I’ve tasted 3-4 bottles, with 20 years of age, and I’d never guess that.

Tons of Burgundies are.

DRC at 100% new wood and 100% whole cluster was definitely one that changed my ideas about new wood.

Falls into the category of “don’t try this at home” or “your mileage may vary”.

They’ve definitely got it dialed in.

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

Tons of Burgundies are.

DRC at 100% new wood and 100% whole cluster was definitely one that changed my ideas about new wood.

Falls into the category of “don’t try this at home” or “your mileage may vary”.
They’ve definitely got it dialed in.

In my very limited DRC experience, when young…it’s reminded me of somewhat oaky, robust Cali Pinot. The magic doesn’t happen until it ages IMHO. And yes, your mileage will vary.

RT

[Todd_Hamina]

DRC is 100% new oak

I’ve tasted 3-4 bottles, with 20 years of age, and I’d never guess that.

Tons of Burgundies are.

DRC at 100% new wood and 100% whole cluster was definitely one that changed my ideas about new wood.

That’s close to 100% accurate, but not completely. There’s always some wiggle room for less.

And we mortals can’t get the same wood they do.

[K_John_Joseph]

Jim, is there whole cluster in there?

The oak /WC can be confused. I know first hand.

Had to look it up. Exactly 33% of the barrels that make this wine up range from 33% to 100% (far more 100% than 33 or 50) whole cluster. I don’t know what that translates into overall percent. I don’t really think it works that way though. A 50% whole cluster fermented wine is different than a 50% whole cluster wine that is half 100% whole cluster and half 100% destemmed. Nonetheless, the presence of whole cluster fermentation should be evident. There were 5 new barrels out of 168 (3%) and 127 neutral barrels (76%).

Brig I had the same thought. Seemed unlikely these wines especially were heavy on new oak, but figured the whole cluster would add an element that might not appeal to all.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Tons of Burgundies are.

DRC at 100% new wood and 100% whole cluster was definitely one that changed my ideas about new wood.

That’s close to 100% accurate, but not completely. There’s always some wiggle room for less.

And we mortals can’t get the same wood they do.

There are vintages where it’s less whole cluster, but there are many where it’s 100% both ways.

Regardless, it was simply a signpost for me. We use wood where it’s needed and don’t where it’s not. That seems the simplest solution to me.

[Todd_Hamina]

Judiciously used it certainly makes a wine easier to like… so I didn’t do it.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Judiciously used it certainly makes a wine easier to like… so I didn’t do it.

I always liked your wines.


Albert Einstein dropped out of school at 15, but for many school is a good experience. And for some it just makes them intolerable.

Oak truisms are mostly horse poop, from only neutral to 200%…how come there are no truisms for looking at each situation as an independent occurrence?

[Todd_Hamina]

The truth doesn’t sell well.