Thoughts on 1986 Bordeaux?

WINE TALK
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You have mistakenly assumed that I am stating the opinion of the group.

I care not what others think, for I am a Berserker!!! [berserker.gif]

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IMO, the idea that the 86s are so structured that they would never come around is more of a myth, perhaps based on three wines, the 86 Mouton, Margaux and the Lafite but even the Mouton is open. Most of the 86s have been drinking nicely for a while.

IMO, the Rauzen Segla, Talbot and Gruaud Larose are great wines that are still affordable, relatively speaking of course.

The wine got better, gaining incredible amount of weight and sweet fruit. Some cassis with a hint of redder fruit, cedar, mocha, lead pencil and noticeable oak that to me is pleasing. This bottle displays silky and polished texture, excellent concentration and although noticeable but integrated tannins. Next to the 00 Pavie, the wine is more polished and delineated and better structured but not as expressive and hedonistic. A long life ahead much more room to improve. The last drop was the best as it was really getting jammier and sweeter! (97 pts.)

  • 1986 Château Talbot - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien (7/24/2011)
    Impromptu Sunday Bordeaux gathering at Ruth Chris Tysons Corner, VA (Ruth Chris Tysons Corner, VA): The wine that I have loved in the past. Pop and pour, one of the most youthful example of the line up, little hard and rustic, big scale wine. It became expressive at the end of the night. An excellent example of St Julien. This and the 82 LLC would have benefited the most from decanting. The second youngest showing after the 82 LLC. (93 pts.)
  • 1986 Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac (5/17/2011)
    Pichon Baron vs. Pichon Lalande @ Palena (Washington DC): This is a big scale wine. The expression is deeper and fruit sweeter than the other Lalandes tasted. It took the longest time to open up but even than not as floral. Cassis, ripe jammy dark fruits, a hint of tobacco and black pepper. The palate shows excellent concentration, chewy dark fruit and integrated tannins. Still quite youthful wine that will need another five to ten years to become more expressive with the tertiary elements. (93 pts.)
  • 1986 Château Léoville Las Cases - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien (6/16/2008)
    Classic cab nose, licorice, still young, ash, smoked meat. It has a great concentration, high acidity and noticeable yet well integrated tannin which will help this wine improve for at least another 20+ years. (96 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

23

I have no love for the 86’s, they remind me of the 75’s. It is a charmless vintage and while it may last it will never be fun to drink. I will admit to enjoying the Gruaud Larose recently. So many wines are just brutal monsters (Mouton) that will never come around.

24

Had the '75 Mouton in December. It has come around and was actually quite charming. The price is not charming, and it’s certainly no blockbuster, but it was enjoyable. I’m not sure I’d even touch the '86 Mouton yet.

25

I have had some really nice 1975s, including Pichon Lalande, Figeac and Leoville las Cases. Similarly, I have enjoyed a number of 1986s, including those two, Gruaud Larose, Rausen Segla, Pape Clement, and others.

26

IMO, the tannins in the 75s tend to be dry/dusty where the 86s are not. I believe the 75s are finally coming around. I have had a couple bottles of the 86 Mouton that are drinking well, ie showing fruits, although very youthful.

27

I find most 1986 Bordeaux to be hard, lacking charm and elegance. They are beefy, powerful and masculine. At their best, Mouton, Las Cases Gruaud Larose, Rauzan Segla and a few others, they are wonderful expressions of Bordeaux. But most of the vintage is just not much fun to drink. 1975 Bordeaux is even worse. Although, 75 Trotanoy is a stunning wine.

Exceptions to a vintage do make a good vintage.

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Jeff

Given your dislike for 1975s, I expected you to dislike 1986s.

Rachel,

I think this really is the point. I think you are seeing a lot of variation in preferences because there is a lot of variation in palates. I think you will find that people that like richer, more lucious, Bordeaux will hate 1986s, but that people who like more structured wines will like 1986s more.

I don’t really know your taste preferences at all, but if you like more modern-styled Bordeaux or Cult California wines, etc., you probably will not like 1986s. If your taste preferences tend more to traditional Bordeaux or to something like Mayacamas Cabernet, etc., give the 86s a chance.

29

Howard,
I dislike modern-styled Bordeaux and cult-styled California wines. I like elegant, balanced wines from Bordeaux and elsewhere. In my opinion, the vintages of the '80s line up something like this in order of overall quality: '82, '89, '90, '85, '83 (for Margaux and St-Emilion), '86 maybe, '88, '83 (for the other communes), '81. '84 and '87 don’t count. I might be giving '88 short-shrift, as I didn’t buy many and haven’t tasted nearly as many as I have the other vintages. There are plenty of exceptions to the above and I flip/flop between preferring '89 and '90. In a decade of great Bordeaux quality, certainly the best overall in my lifetime, '86 is a disappointment given the original hype. I bought something like 25 cases of '86 futures from Chateau & Estates, and sold all but 6 because I didn’t and don’t like the style of the vintage. 5 of the six cases had been opened, so I kept those (PLL, Lynch Bages, LLC, GL, Ducru). The 6th is one unopened case of Mouton because I hope that it will come around for my children to enjoy. If not, they will be able to sell it for more than the $460 that I paid for it.

30

To enjoy most 1986 Bordeaux right now, a tolerance or even a love of black tea and iron really helps (AKA tannin). There’s plenty of fruit and acid and perfume and length, but those big, softening tannins still call for attention. It’s part of the vintage’s style. I’ll buy anyone’s well-stored 86 Bordeaux and thank them for cellaring them for almost 30 years on my behalf!

31

FWIW I had a tasting of a bunch of the top ones a couple of years ago, and none had problematic tannins for me. LLC and Margaux were the most ready. Mouton still rather oaky and brooding. I had no concerns about fruit ability to continue to last with any of them.

32

Howard, I tend to prefer more traditional style Bordeaux and have almost no California wines (generally they’re too ripe for me, plus I’ll admit to a certain amount of anti-California bias that a lot of people from the NW have). I like the majority of the 86’s I’ve had, but did think a lot of them needed more time, but I was curious to get the opinions of some others here since it seems to be pretty controversial for a “good” vintage.

As a general rule, I prefer 85 and 83 (those are also the vintages where I’ve tasted more broadly). I’ve also like the bulk of the 88’s I’ve had, but as a general rule they strike me as leaner than 82, 83, 85, 89, and 90. I haven’t had enough of the 81’s to have a real opinion. Maybe it’s my lack of experience with 82 and 89, but I’d have to say 83 and 85 are my favorite vintages in that decade (not saying they’re the best vintages - just saying they’re my favorites).

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Rachel,

Try and see if you can find some 1978s or 1979s. Some really good ones can be found for relatively good prices. A few years ago (2-4) I found a 78 Domaine de Chevalier that I think was $100 or less. It was fabulous. My favorite 79s (not that cheap) have been Ausone, Palmer and Pichon Lalande. But, I am sure there are other good ones.

Also, while a lot of 1982s are really expensive, I had a Meyney that was quite good and, if it could be found, I bet would not be that expensive. This was a great vintage for lesser wines and remember tasting wonderful Chasse Spleen, Gloria, Ormes de Pez, etc.

34

While I understand that the year 2000 was the last year of the old millenium, I cannot grasp how that concept gets projected to including 1990 in “the eighties”!!!

I’d pretty much given up on 1986’s until the dinner Mr. Martin details above. I’m glad we still have some in the basement.

And 1981 was/is miles better than 1984 or 1987. Look for Meyney, Gruaud Larose, Pichon Lalande, Leo Bart or Las Cases for decent wines that should be well priced. Margaux and Haut Brion are the only firsts that didn’t embarrass themselves that year, so that might have a lot to do with the vintage’s bad rep.

35

Tom, glad to get your thoughts on this topic… the 86 Pape Clement you shared in DC was terrific, bested only by the 85 La Mission Haut Brion!

36

'86 is like '28. Took until the late '70s for the '28s to come around. Thinking of starting to enjoy my '86s in maybe the mid 2030’s. So 20 years to go. For me, they’re my 75th birthday wines…

37

I love vintages like this. They’re not of much use to people who brought them on release, but they’re great for people buying them after the people who bought them on release gave up on them.

38

I’d love to find a well-stored case of 86 GL. Also would be thinking maybe 2020 or beyond to begin the uncorkings.

39

I am curious to know about any recent experiences where the 86s are still shutdown/angular.

40

1981 Ducru is also quite good.