The world's finest Grenache is from ...

[Laurent_Gibet]

I should open the famous 1995 next month …

A great verticale in 2010 :

Verticale de Château Rayas rouge à Chateauneuf-du-Pape – In Vino...

[Jeff_Leve]

Hi Laurent

I think we both love Rayas. I’ve had 07 and 95 as well as a few other vintages recently. You can see notes for all those vintages on my site.

[Craig_G]

Are there other 100% grenache CdP wines worth checking out that aren’t in the $100-200+/bottle category? I know Charvin is like 80%+ grenache.

Bosquet Des Papes “A la Gloire de Mon Grandpere” is 98% Grenache and sells for $50-60. It’s very good. We recently did a small horizontal of 2017s in this price range and it was my favorite.

[Laurent_Gibet]

Hi Laurent

I think we both love Rayas. I’ve had 07 and 95 as well as a few other vintages recently. You can see notes for all those vintages on my site.

For my birthday, I might offer this duo :
Rayas 1995
Bonneau Réserve des Célestins 1995

Rayas is no so expensive if you compare with Leroy, Rousseau, Ausone …

In the verticale - report by Pierre Citerne :
10. Châteauneuf-du-Pape : Château Rayas 1995
DS18/18,5+ – PC18/18,5 – LG18+ – PR18/19 – MF18,5/19. Note moyenne : 18,5
La robe annonce un changement de registre radical. Très jeune et brillante, rubis sombre sans reflets orangés, noire en son centre, elle étonne autant qu’elle impressionne.
Comme la robe, le nez est profond et monolithique, imposant plus que captivant. La présence fruitée est énorme, confite mais leste et distinguée, un fruit terrien, sombre (on pense à la mûre, à la myrtille, un peu comme dans un vintage portugais où un Maury…) ; les notes de cèdre et de truffe qui émergent à l’aération sont magnifiques mais ne parviennent pas à dissiper l’impression générale d’austérité et de quant à soi.
En bouche le volume du vin est considérable, son extrait sec impressionnant, avec une présence acide au premier plan. On est effectivement rentré dans un autre registre, celui de la monumentalité, avec un vin (il y en aura d’autres dans la série) qui évoque par son amplitude, sa compacité (paradoxalement…), sa « noirceur » et son indifférence au flux du temps certains hermitages (celui de Chave ou La Chapelle en 1978 par exemple).

[Jeff_Leve]

Laurent… I don’t buy any of those wines. They are all too much for me. Fortunately I have some Rayas in my cellar.

I opened the 95 a few months ago. You’re going to love it! I did😊

[Laurent_Gibet]

I also have Pignan …
Did you try to guess the différence blind ?

Maybe a hint of balsamic aromas at the opening for Pignan … as Emmanuel Reynaud says …

[Craig_Williams]

Rayas is the reference point Grenache for me. On occasion, Domaine de Cristia VV, 100% Grenache from 95 year old vines, is very compelling.

[Jeff_Leve]

Are there other 100% grenache CdP wines worth checking out that aren’t in the $100-200+/bottle category? I know Charvin is like 80%+ grenache.

Brian you should read my page on Chateauneuf. It has links to most estates where you can read about their blends or find producers with 100% or close to 100% Grenache, for example “Pure” from La Barroche. But it’s not just being 100% Grenache that makes Rayas, it’s the terroir and the choices made by the Domaine.

All About Chateauneuf du Pape Guide Best Wine Character Style History

[Craig_G]

Rayas is no so expensive if you compare with Leroy, Rousseau, Ausone …

I tried a similar argument with my wife, and I still don’t have a Ferrari.

[Greg_Kramer]

The correlation is to your palate, not to others. For many, like me, elevated alcohol levels are like scratching nails on a chalk board. It’s largely why the modernization of CDP - heavily influenced by Cambie and Parker, and of course other sycophantic critics - came close to killing this once glorious region for me. I drink very few CDP producers these days. It used to be one of the more significant regions in my purchasing. Labels are important. If a Southern Rhone says 15% or more, I generally avoid it. Sure, I could be missing a decent one here or there, but I’ve drank far too many Rhones to know what generally works for me and what doesn’t. I’m not going to drop $75 or more on a CDP (or $800+ on a Rayas) at 15%+ just hoping it works.

I similarly avoided high alcohol wines and railed against producers amping up their wines to chase points and $. Two experiences recalibrated my thinking (i’m not naming names because I sell wine from both referenced producers):

1. Cabernet Franc in Bourgueil from a staunchly traditional producer. I shunned their 2018’s for quite some time, even though the winemaker told me it is one of his greatest vintages in his 32 years making wine. The ABV’s were 14.5-14.9 compared with mid 13’s the prior years. Finally, I tasted. While bigger they are impeccably balanced with no heat. I think they will age well and become stellar wines.

2. A new producer from Rioja Baja who largely eschews Tempranillo in favor of Garnacha and Mazuelo, which he considers the true indigenous varieties and better suited to his vineyards. The Garnacha is old vines grown at very high elevations. His 'regular" cuvee is 15% and his small production, single vineyard (planted 125 years ago - 85% original rootstock - at the highest elevation allowed clocks in at 15.5%. Again, no trace of heat and they are not only balanced but, indeed, elegant.

So, there are big wines and small wines but the key is balance not ABV - assuming one enjoys both sizes.

[Scott_Watkins]

Well sadly because I have never tried Rayas I will have say commando g in Spain is really killing it right now.

+1 but closing in on Rayas in price, with Rumbo al Norte retailing >$300. I forget who (maybe Luis Gutierrez) but someone called it Rayas as if made by Marcel Lapierre.

Bernabeleva is excellent as well, and prices have not shot through the roof like comando g (yet).

Thanks for the tip I will find some Bernabeleva asap

[Laurent_Gibet]

The correlation is to your palate, not to others. For many, like me, elevated alcohol levels are like scratching nails on a chalk board. It’s largely why the modernization of CDP - heavily influenced by Cambie and Parker, and of course other sycophantic critics - came close to killing this once glorious region for me. I drink very few CDP producers these days. It used to be one of the more significant regions in my purchasing. Labels are important. If a Southern Rhone says 15% or more, I generally avoid it. Sure, I could be missing a decent one here or there, but I’ve drank far too many Rhones to know what generally works for me and what doesn’t. I’m not going to drop $75 or more on a CDP (or $800+ on a Rayas) at 15%+ just hoping it works.

I similarly avoided high alcohol wines and railed against producers amping up their wines to chase points and $. Two experiences recalibrated my thinking (i’m not naming names because I sell wine from both referenced producers):

1. Cabernet Franc in Bourgueil from a staunchly traditional producer. I shunned their 2018’s for quite some time, even though the winemaker told me it is one of his greatest vintages in his 32 years making wine. The ABV’s were 14.5-14.9 compared with mid 13’s the prior years. Finally, I tasted. While bigger they are impeccably balanced with no heat. I think they will age well and become stellar wines.

2. A new producer from Rioja Baja who largely eschews Tempranillo in favor of Garnacha and Mazuelo, which he considers the true indigenous varieties and better suited to his vineyards. The Garnacha is old vines grown at very high elevations. His 'regular" cuvee is 15% and his small production, single vineyard (planted 125 years ago - 85% original rootstock - at the highest elevation allowed clocks in at 15.5%. Again, no trace of heat and they are not only balanced but, indeed, elegant.

So, there are big wines and small wines but the key is balance not ABV - assuming one enjoys both sizes.

I visited Lamé-Delisle-Boucard in Bourgueil last year. After the opulent 2014 and 2015, an extraordinary (and never seen before) 2018 vintage, wines reaching 14,8° …

We ended by a great panel : Bourgueil 76, 64, 49, 47 … and 1911 …

[S_Rash]

I have never had Rayas so I can’t compare, but I have had some amazing Garnacha from Spain. Especially the Sierra de Gredos region of late. The Commando G guys are doing some amazing things with those old vines!!

[S_Rash]

I have never had Rayas so I can’t compare, but I have had some amazing Garnacha from Spain recently. Especially the Sierra de Gredos region. The Commando G guys are doing some amazing things with those old vines!

[Greg_Kramer]

The correlation is to your palate, not to others. For many, like me, elevated alcohol levels are like scratching nails on a chalk board. It’s largely why the modernization of CDP - heavily influenced by Cambie and Parker, and of course other sycophantic critics - came close to killing this once glorious region for me. I drink very few CDP producers these days. It used to be one of the more significant regions in my purchasing. Labels are important. If a Southern Rhone says 15% or more, I generally avoid it. Sure, I could be missing a decent one here or there, but I’ve drank far too many Rhones to know what generally works for me and what doesn’t. I’m not going to drop $75 or more on a CDP (or $800+ on a Rayas) at 15%+ just hoping it works.

I similarly avoided high alcohol wines and railed against producers amping up their wines to chase points and $. Two experiences recalibrated my thinking (i’m not naming names because I sell wine from both referenced producers):

1. Cabernet Franc in Bourgueil from a staunchly traditional producer. I shunned their 2018’s for quite some time, even though the winemaker told me it is one of his greatest vintages in his 32 years making wine. The ABV’s were 14.5-14.9 compared with mid 13’s the prior years. Finally, I tasted. While bigger they are impeccably balanced with no heat. I think they will age well and become stellar wines.

2. A new producer from Rioja Baja who largely eschews Tempranillo in favor of Garnacha and Mazuelo, which he considers the true indigenous varieties and better suited to his vineyards. The Garnacha is old vines grown at very high elevations. His 'regular" cuvee is 15% and his small production, single vineyard (planted 125 years ago - 85% original rootstock - at the highest elevation allowed clocks in at 15.5%. Again, no trace of heat and they are not only balanced but, indeed, elegant.

So, there are big wines and small wines but the key is balance not ABV - assuming one enjoys both sizes.

I visited Lamé-Delisle-Boucard in Bourgueil last year. After the opulent 2014 and 2015, an extraordinary (and never seen before) 2018 vintage, wines reaching 14,8° …

We ended by a great panel : Bourgueil 76, 64, 49, 47 … and 1911 …

Lamé-Delisle-Boucard has an impressive cellar. My tasting with the other producer included 1993, 1989, 1985, 1971. So, you win…at least on maturity of vintages. . Sorry for the thread drift.

[Arv_R]

I know its not Rayas, but at one point some of Charvin’s grapes went into their blend before Charvin started bottling it up on their own nameplate.

So I would suggest Charvin’s grenache is pretty good too.

[Jeff_Leve]

I know its not Rayas, but at one point some of Charvin’s grapes went into their blend before Charvin started bottling it up on their own nameplate.

So I would suggest Charvin’s grenache is pretty good too.

Anything at some point was possible. Where did you read this? I would think it is more likely purchased grapes went into La Pialade, as Rayas has always come from a very specific parcel of vines.

[markjchambers]

Forgot to mention Torbreck Les Amis. Serious OV Grenache. The 2003 can hold it’s ground with the best CdPs. Not a whole lot cheaper than Rayas. I haven’t had any recently.

[MitchTallan]

Noon Eclipse and Clarendon Hills Kangarilla.
Now that we have that straightened out, I have some for sale or trade so make me an offer. Please.

[Mattstolz]

there’s been a lot of mentioning of Rayas (as I’m sure there should be) in this thread, but for those of us that can’t afford it (I definitely can’t afford 4-6 bottles of Rayas!) the Chateau des Tours for 2015 released recently. any of the Rayas fans a buy on these as well?