I think I’m talking about the winemaking more than the wines, ie, not about the estates of the two. Martin is comparing all three estates he sells and saying Patrice’s is not in their leagues.
From above,
Patrice is , above all, evolving daily/yearly. He’s always been like that. That’s his “genius”: always trying to improve things; always full of creative ideas. That’s why he’s been compared a fair amount to the late great Henri Jayer, except that Jayer was much more rigid once he “found it”. Patrice never will “find it” , to his credit.
I believe that you have jumbled this comment. I certainly am not dissing Chevillon or Chauvenet. Nor am I dissing Rion. You have found Rion’s wines to be “terrific.” I have found them to be okay to good, and not compelling at the pricing that I have seen. To put it into perspective, I have probably sold 20 cases of Chevillon for every bottle of Rion I have sold. I have really wanted to like the Rion wines and to sell them, but it hasn’t worked out that way. It sounds like Robert is going to offer better pricing such that the wines will have more appeal. It also sounds as if the 2013s are really good. I hope that both of those things are true. I have never met Patrice, but he sounds like a good guy.
Despite that you sell Rion wines yourself , you said "Perhaps Robert’s pricing will make these wines a good alternative to the likes of Chevillon and Chauvenet, but in my experience they are not in the same league. "]
How could it be any clearer that you said Rion is not in the “league” of Chauvenet or Chevillon. That’s “dissing” by any criteria…and dissing the “pricing”, efforts of Robert, too (the competition). That you would denigrate a winery you sell yourself makes no sense…until you explained that you sell so much more Chevillon. Go with the money; why not!
But, I think anyone could sell Chevillon wines; they sell themselves. They are terrific and well priced…until Kermit Lynch marks them up, they are actually less than most excellent estates’ prices at the winery. Much more of a challenge to sell a “non-name”.
Sorry it didn’t “work out” for you trying to sell the Rion wines. But, not a reason to jump in here and diss them and the next guy trying to sell them. Robert sounds passionate about them, has visited three times and met Patrice and Maxime each time, I think. I wish him good luck, as the wines deserve to be better distributed and sold by people who appreciate them.
Your comment is jumbled. It implies that I was dissing Chevillon and Chauvenet. I was not. Nor was I dissing Rion, just stating my opinion that, in my experience, the wines are neither “terrific” nor Jayer-like. In my opinion, they are not in the same league as Chevillon or Chauvenet; they are a step or two down. Given that Rion is a darling of yours, I knew that I would hear from you (even though you claimed to have put me on ignore).
FWIW, I had a superb Patrice Rion 2002 Bourgogne “Bons Batons” last night with a slow roasted Jamison Farm lamb shoulder. A great combo and a great dinner (and I’m usually not a huge fan of lamb, but Jamison Farm is tops).
The Bons Batons, which I popped and poured because I decided to use it at the last minute, was effusive and full of very lively red fruits (I guess I would have thought it was a Chambolle blind). It is nice to see that the 2002 vintage, which I adore in Burgundy, is starting to soften and show some charm. The color was mildly evolved, too. Long and concentrated and elegant…a truly “wow” wine. This morning , as I usually do, I put some in a glass and tasted it after my coffee.
As such wines usually do, the wine tasted more evolved and closer to what I would hope for in an aged RB. The red fruits had taken on an herbal quality of fresh picked cassis (blackcurrant) and the fruit was silkier than the night before. In other words, I think that this wine is still worthy of aging and that it has all in place to reward that patience–bigtime. It is a super classy Bourgone…in the league of any such wine.
It’s nice to have experiences like this…with “lesser” wines.