The terrific wines of Domaine Patrice Rion- Burgundy

WINE TALK
21

I’m pretty self aware enough to know the difference between subtle oak influence in young wines and charred vanilla oak. :slight_smile:

But I didn’t say it was a flaw. Just noting what the man asked about oak presence.

Almost picked up some 95 Rion Charmes today, but it was a touch pricier than I wanted to try. Like I said, i still have 01/02 charmes sitting around, so will open them in a few years.

22

I can only speak to the few vintages that i’ve tasted there.
For the '13s, 50% new oak for all of the 1ers, including les Amoureuses. (I don’t know how it was in '08)
0% new oak for the Bons Batons.
The oak prominence is NOT something that stands out in the '13s. It seems quite tastefully integrated. He extracted particularly lightly in '13, in spite of good phenolic maturity, a different choice than he did as recently as '11. Indeed the '11s that I tasted there had less ripe phenols, and the overall consistency of the range was not nearly as high or flattering (I think that this is in line with other critics impressions, fwiw). I’d put the fine texture and pallor of the '13s in the “infusion” camp of extraction. My global impression of their '13s has words like bright, pale, pure, precise, red fruited as threads throughout… Everybody is their own favorite critic, but I have a hard time imagining anybody giving these wines anything but a range of B+/A- notes. I also think that they would appeal to a broader rather than narrower audience. For example, Simon Bize is not for everyone. (I sell Bize too; I am not an idealogue).
The '13s “pinotent” (the verb “pinoter” means to pinot, be very pinot in character…), for those who prefer the pallor, acidity, prettiness, and terroir signatures of great Burgundian Pinot Noir. My wife is not a wine geek, but she has good taste (i’ve created a monster). She loved the Rion '13s with some emphatic, “Damn those were good!” as we departed.
To the best of my knowledge, their contracts in Chambolle/Vougeot are long term, and they farm and vinify the land as though they owned it. Thus, there is no dropoff between domaine and “negociant” fruit. I don’t believe it has always been this way, but has been majority so for some time.

23

Funny, Charlie, based on some PM’s I got…I tried to grab a '95 Rion on the way out to the office today.

I had a Charmes '95 in my hand. But, when I looked at my notes on the wine…I saw I had had it in fall 2013 and said it was a “WOW” wine…and to keep it for a full 25 if possible. I fear I have only 1 bottle left, though my inventory says 2.

So, I grabbed a villages Vosne '95 instead and cleaned it into a decanter, gave it an hour…and poured it back in before I left. (Trying something different method wise).

Just curious what the price is on the '95 Charmes?

24

Off the top of my head, I think it was $160, which was a bit over the threshold of what I was willing to experiment on.

25

Yikes…

I’ll PM you my notes if you’re interested?

26

What a mindblowing thread. Who is fraudulently posting under Stuart’s login?

First, “Stuart” is drawing conclusions about a producer’s wines even though he’s clearly “wasted” them ALL by opening too young. (All under 25 years!) And horrors, he’s drawn impressions from tasting wines still in barrel! Why has no one called him out for disrespecting red burgundy??? [snort.gif]

On top of that, he has mentioned a “wineseller” without calling him a shill even once! [shock.gif]

Now, if he had also stated that he really enjoyed P. Rion’s 2004 wines, that would’ve signaled the end of the world. neener

Regards,
Peter

27

[scratch.gif]

[truce.gif]

how do you think I formed my opinions about axing immature wines? by reading about them? [cry.gif]


(oh, and I told Patrice that his wines – and many other great producers’ 2004s were flawed, in 2007. When I told him that I had heard from some other domaines that the flaw was due to ladybugs, he laughed at me. He later emailed me that this conclusion was becoming the most convincing one after talking to many winemakers. )

28

post em here in this thread, I think ppl would be interested.

29

Ok, Charlie, some notes on the 1995 Chambolle-Charmes from Daniel Rion.

9/13: brisket. …very nice blackish fruits; clean; med bodied…still tannins showing, but not dominant as the fruit level is fine. Med finish…good fruit on it…complex and clean. Leave for 2015; maybe 2020 to really show great, as it really held and improved for a couple of days.

And, from 2/10 , with casoulet, Tarbais beans and homemade duck confit…two chambolles with friends at our place (they brought the other):

Anne-Marie Gilles 1er cru Chambolle (from old vines in 3 1er crus, from their website). I’d never heard of this producer before; a friend brought it to contribute to the theme. Raspberry mocha aromas; maturing colors; clean, chiseled and elegant; some noticeable tannins of the rustic type deprive the finish and the whole package of being totally pleasing or a wine of great finesse overall. But, maturing and pleasing and a different style from the next one.

Daniel (Patrice) Rion Chambolle 1er cru “Les Charmes”: deep cherry/cassis and roses- really mutifaceted nose; softer on the palate, fuller bodied than the Gille. But, tannins noticeable and somewhat intrusive. This wine has more grand cru “presence” than the first one. Still not all that mature, though the color is certainly on its way.

A recent note on the 1996:

5/15: opened and took some out of bottle and left rest in; then after many hours filtered, put in decanter for 1 hour and served with grilled chicken thighs. Superb, silky wine.Very harmonious and deep deep core of sweet fruit at the heart. The fruit is lively due to the acidity , and both black and red fruits. Long finish, with some acidity showing through…without food. This is a food vintage. Silky, smooth, earthy, too. And, maturing…secondary color and character. At the beginning of that…drink from 2017 on… WOW mmmmm

And, FWIW, an old note on the 1991 version:

1/27/08: roast Rumbleway chicken. This wine was closed out of the bottle and for many hours. When it came to…the next day, it was beautiful. Black and red rasberries, good structure. Long finish and will be at peak prob. at age 20. really terrific…for food and for sipping, too.

30

I’ve got two 93s waiting for Fall shipping, so I will gladly put it to the test. thx

31

Perhaps Robert’s pricing will make these wines a good alternative to the likes of Chevillon and Chauvenet, but in my experience they are not in the same league. Alternatively, as Robert suggests, perhaps there have been changes that will increase the appeal of the wines. For me, another change that is in order is to get rid of the heavy, over-sized bottles.

Disclaimer: I sell Chevillon, Chauvenet and Rion.

32

That’s the point. At least here in Germany, the Nuits Villages from Rion is more expensive than the Nuits Villages from (e.g.) Chevillon and Gouges. And the Nuits 1er Crus (Clos St. Marc and Clos des Argillières) are more expensive than e.g. Cailles from Chevillon or Pruliers and Clos des Porrets St. Georges from Gouges and roughly at the same level as Vaucrains from both Chevillon and Gouges. Yet, I don’t see the Rion wines at the same level.

33

Tough challenge:
Both Chevillon and Gouges are top NSG producers and cheap by cote de nuits standards, hence excellent Value. So, that’s tough for everybody else (except Comte LB who can sell at any price, it seems… and Boudots… producers as neither Gouges nor Chevillon have these)
More interesting would be a comparison with Chambolle producers as the best producers are not cheap. How does P Rion performs relative to these?

34

I haven’t tried the Rion Chambolles, but in Germany the Rion Chambolle village is more than 50% more expensive than Francois Bertheau and roughly 40% more expensive than Ghislaine Barthod. The Charmes and Fuées are also priced at Ghislaine Barthod levels and are more expensive than the 1er Cru cuvée and the Charmes from Francois Bertheau. Those two producers are not easy to beat…

35

I now understand why P Rion is compared to Jayer… champagne.gif

It’s about prices… well, he still has some way to go…

Note to self I need to open my Chambolle Charmes 99 from D Rion made by Patrice before split

36

A few points of “relativity”:
-First, as to comparing Premeaux based NSG wines to other parts of NSG is a tiny bit of apples and oranges, or at the least granny smith and golden delicious…not to mention how different house styles are.
-Second, in the US, both Chevillon, Gouges, and Chauvenet are far pricier than the Rion’s offered here (thank you Kermit and Vineyard Brands, even from back door dealers like you, Martin).
-Third, in the US, Barthod is roughly double+ the price of the Rion wines (thank you Rosenthal), Bertheau entry level 1er on par, and Charmes more expensive. 1er cru prices ex-cellars from both Ghislaine and Bertheau are on par or higher than Rion, fwiw. What German and American importers do with them is clearly a relative enterprise.
Hopefully I will change the US pricing schematic on one of the above mentioned producers, but for now, that is how it is here in America.
As to which producer is a good alternative to Chevillon and Chauvenet in the US: Alain Michelot. The offer for the '13s coming out in two weeks or so, some '12s in stock. PM if interested.

37

I hadn’t responded to this pricing stuff, frankly, because I know nothing about it, including what prices Rob Panzer is charging. That’s not really my interest here.

But, it is also important to keep in mind another distinction: Gouges and Chevillon (I know nothing about Chauvenet, own no Gouges and Chevillon’s wines are the third or fourth most number of bottles in my collection, after Dauvissat and Rion) are producers “of” Nuits St. Georges wines , located in NSG. Patrice Rion (and earlier when he was at Dom. Daniel) is a producer “in” Nuits of a whole range of wines from the Cote, including two 1er cru Nuits of great class and terrific wines from Chambolle and Vougeot and the Hautes Cotes, as well. (At Daniel, he made that range plus two fine 1er Vosnes (including Beaumonts, my favorite 1er cru in Burgundy…a CV and Echezaux.) So, Patrice Rion is not a producer “of” Nuits particularly, unlike the others that Martin sells (and apparently disses, too. rolleyes .)

His two 1er crus (one his monopole) from Nuits are excellent examples of the southern (Premeaux) side of Nuits, but his range is much much broader than Nuits. So, a little apples and oranges and cassis and groseilles.

And, in general, I don’t find it useful to compare estates per se anyway. Too many variables.

38

Yet you began this thread by comparing Patrice Rion’s wines to those of Henri Jayer.

39

No, I didn’t. I compared Patrice Rion to Henri Jayer, in his winemaking perfectionism and endless curiosity about improving things.

The “wines” themselves are apples and oranges, though they did both once make VR Beauxmonts. (And, that’s because, when after WWII, Jayer was blasting the Cros P vineyard to clear it for use again after the War and phylloxera, Daniel Rion was blasting his holdings in “Hauts Beaumonts”, a neighboring vineyard, for the same rejuvenation. I don’t know where Jayer’s BM came from.)

40



A couple of weeks ago, I posted that I thought that the > wines > of Patrice Rion in Premeaux (Nuits St. Georges) in Burgundy, whose > wines > I’ve followed since the 1983 vintage, were most like those of the late great Henri Jayer. I believe that for many reasons including their finesse, marked vineyard differences, greatness in “off” vintages and that Patrice’s and Jayer’s > wines > never really seemed to shut down…ie, were approachable whenever you happen to open them.

? You compare the wines of rion to jayer. Don’t see anything about winemaking perfectionism or curiosity, but talk about the wines themselves.