Love not money?
In other news…Lincoln shot!
Ron, you do realize we have a Wine Talk forum for stuff that is wine-related?
Don’t know if you’ve seen it. It’s here:
I took about a 70% cut at age 38 to get into wine, starting at $12/hour in the cellar at Quintessa in 05. Can’t believe it was almost 7 years ago! Time flies.
Unless you are a consulting winemaker or manager of a large winery (>100,000 cases) or a consultant of some kind, you are not going to make a 6-figure salary in this biz. As we say here, you get paid in lifestyle, not money. Great weather, no smog, free wine, great food, small community. It has had tough moments but overall it has been the best move I’ve ever made. And if you really follow your bliss, over time the money will come. Maybe not big money, but enough to buy a house here and live comfortably. The reason for this is that so few people do what they really like, that those that do over time will find their niche and the passion will pay off.
As for having a winery, at the small end (<500cs) you might struggle to ever make much of a profit. The costs are multiples higher than the $20/bottle that some in the press have reported per bottle, at least for Cab in Napa. I know. So unless you have a cool quarter-million to throw into it each of the first 3-4 years, you will never make enough volume to pull a profit, unless you can be your own winemaker and sell it all yourself, and then you stand a chance.
But whenever someone asks me about the finances of going into wine, I tell them if they can’t accept a black hole of money for three years and then at best, break-even afterwards… they should not go into it. It is not a great financial move, it is something you do because you feel you just have to. You almost have to be a little nuts. But I’m still glad I did it.
$6 per bottle in packaging?
ooooof.
You can buy good-looking glass (bottles) and excellent quality corks for quite a bit less than $2 per piece, but when I figure packaging costs, I figure in the cost to imprint (which I do rather than paper labels) and don’t forget the costs associated with moving all that stuff around. Freight charges on all this stuff add up. And artwork charges. And and.
With a median American household income of around $50,000, I’d say if you make more than this in the wine field you should consider yourself blessed. You have your cake, and are eating it too.
This thread makes me realize I don’t have enough money to even lose money. Awesome.
What Roy said.
And Todd.
Best, Jim
I am looking at about $3/glass, $1.25/cork. $.75/capsule, $.50/bottling, $1 label = $6.50. Thanks for reminding me. 
Napa is terribly skewed by the ‘idea’ of winemaking, not the practice, and hardly represents the possibilities. If you’re good at what you do, work your tail off and stay ahead of the market (and wineries en masse), there’s a reasonable living to be made even for those of us who came to it without a dime and a previous career. The first question I ask anybody that wants to go into the wine business is, “What are you going to do that isn’t already being done?” I’ve had one or two good answers in the last five years (and those wineries are growing hand over fist), which might offer an insight why so many wineries lose money. The world needs more $100 Napa Cabs and $50 Sonoma Pinots like I need a hole in my head.
A different perspective.
I didn’t buy a vineyard to make money.
I didn’t buy a vineyard for love of wine (although I love wine).
I bought a vineyard out of fascination with seeing it from the ground up, as I’ve made my living for 32 years selling wine.
I didn’t buy a vineyard in the Napa Valley, although I love Napa Valley wines.
I didn’t invest millions of dollars, not even close.
My production from 15 acres over the first four years averaged 1500 cases (12 x 750ml). I had a newly planted vineyard come into production in 2011 and the Clerk of the Weather finally smiled at me, so I will bottle 2950 cases over the next few months.
My costs for bottling may exceed $1.35/btl, including both dry goods (glass, screwcaps and/or corks, labels, capsules for wines with corks, and cases) and bottling costs.
I’m reasonably close to break-even on operating costs; if all goes well (production stays at an average of 2000 cases and retail price can average over $15), I will start to show an operating profit in the next few years.
It’s a lot of work on top of my ‘day job’, but I’m having a good time.
Dan Kravitz
Dan,
A friend ITB once commented that it’s a lot of work just to see your name at the dinner table.
He then told me that he doesn’t pay much attention to labels.
Ain’t that the shit?!
Best, Jim
Fixed.
Sounds wonderful, if anyone can make it work,you can.
Dan,
What ever happened to “the fifteen” loved that wine…
You know what, "guys?’ If you don’t turn a profit, then you obviously have other motives. And one of those motives can be self-satisfaction. To me, there are others, but they are along those lines. And I think that is valid.
I turn a profit, and much of the reason is that I work the business. On many and most levels. I have to. People who brought fortunes to the wine business here in Napa Valley and run at a loss year in and year out, that’s ok, too. They don’t need to answer to anyone. It is difficult to have them as competitors, yes, but they have every right to be in the business, and to manage the bottom line how ever they want to.
Skip the Capsule. Saved you $0.75.
I think you Napa guys need to get together and purchase bulk or something. How is it that I can buy a bottle of drinkable 2009 Bordeaux at Trader Joe’s for $5, with the winery, distributor, and retailer all making a profit? This wine contains all of the things you purchase for $6.50, filled with the actual product, is produced in a high-tax, high-labor-cost European country, shipped thousands of miles, and marked up twice, with everyone making a profit (presumably). My only guess is that the bottle costs for that wine must be less than $.50, probably less. No wonder I am priced out of Napa – too many vintners make little or no effort to reduce their costs.
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