"The Law" for retail

Veronica_Castro · November 20, 2009, 1:02am

I always thought (for retailers) that it is against the law in California to offer free winetasting or samples. Any enlightenment to offer?

Thanks in advance.

C_Bowman · November 20, 2009, 1:13am

Hey Veronica,

There are different types of licensing in CA for retailers. If they have a license to taste they can. If a retailer has a straight off-sale license then it is not legal to open wine in the store. With us we have a wine bar license, no one under 21 is allowed in the building because we don’t serve food.

B_Stucker · November 20, 2009, 2:08am

So you are treated like you are a bar???

That is insane. Even in our backwoods state, I can take my daughter with me into the liquor store or wine shop, even if they also have a tasting room. She just isn’t allowed to buy.

Randy_Bowman · November 20, 2009, 2:13am

Insane? No, its California, land of tree huggers and taxes.

PeterJ · November 21, 2009, 12:05am

Having been through the hoops on this, I can offer some information. The delineation that can be confusing is between pure retailers (off-sale RETAIL take-the-bottle-with-you license only) and retail shops that are also licensed to offer wine tasting. To do that the shop requires two separate licenses, one for retail (off-sale) and another for the tasting (on-sale). Even if the tasting bar within the store serves cheeses and other small plate appetizer items, the rules that apply are not the same as for a restaurant (which requires minimal kitchen facilities and serving two ‘meals’ a day).

Generally, the owner has to decide if they want to allow anyone under 21 in the front door at all. If they do want that (say, in a residential neighborhood where they may have moms or dads shopping with their kids) they are required to cordon off (usually quite literally, with barriers of some sort) the tasting area and may not let anyone under 21 in that area. The law does not discriminate either. I used to ask people with babies in strollers to sit along the edge of the tasting area with the baby outside the ‘line’. Never know when an ABC decoy will show up.

Further… many jurisdictions in California require such combo retail/tasting facilities to pour no more than two-ounces per ‘taste’, though the law doesn’t really limit how many 2oz tastes can be poured (that may have changed somewhat recently as someone told me a limit of 20 ounces had been imposed). What happens is that the state ABC works with the local jurisdiction to control the alcohol availability based on local concerns. When I first opened I was limited to three specific evenings of tasting per week, which I fought to get as the previous permits were limited to TWO evenings. The city later lifted that condition for all of us but the 2oz pour remained. From what I learned, these ‘conditions’ can vary all over the state.

And… unless it varies or has been changed, the CA law DOES allow an on-sale shop (retail shop tasting room) to pour up to 3 ounces, per person, per day FREE in the aid of sales. Winery tasting rooms are under different guidelines and rules.

I wouldn’t stake my life that all licensees follow their license conditions to the letter, but the above pretty much covers the rules.

Greg_Taylor · November 21, 2009, 12:10am

not true, ive had many good meals there… mostly ones ive cooked…

Bob_Wood · November 21, 2009, 1:55am

You missed the best meal ever served there. 10/18/09.

C_Bowman · November 21, 2009, 2:09am

It’s a good thing I have the 2 of you or we would never eat good food!

Peter, that’s a good summary.

John_Davis · November 22, 2009, 7:01pm

You have no idea. In Indiana: Package liquor stores cannot sell cold pop/soda (its a “set up”) but can sell cold juice as if no one mixes juice w/spirits. Package stores are the only place that can sell cold beer. Grocery stores can sell cold wine & cider but not cold beer. Neither can sell on Sunday. Wineries can sell (take out or in) on Sunday. Bars/restaurants can serve on Sunday, too. No on under 21 is allowed in a package liquor store at any time no matter what. Minors are allowed in wineries, grocery stores that sell and drug stores that sell alcohol, too. Package stores can sample wine/spirits but grocery stores can’t sample any alcoholic beverages. I can go on and on…

JD

Rick_Smith · November 22, 2009, 10:13pm

You don’t like Mac n Cheese?

Steve_Sliger · November 23, 2009, 1:24am

John Davis:

B Stucker:

C. Bowman:

With us we have a wine bar license, no one under 21 is allowed in the building because we don’t serve food.

So you are treated like you are a bar???

That is insane. Even in our backwoods state, I can take my daughter with me into the liquor store or wine shop, even if they also have a tasting room. She just isn’t allowed to buy.

You have no idea. In Indiana: Package liquor stores cannot sell cold pop/soda (its a “set up”) but can sell cold juice as if no one mixes juice w/spirits. Package stores are the only place that can sell cold beer. Grocery stores can sell cold wine & cider but not cold beer. Neither can sell on Sunday. Wineries can sell (take out or in) on Sunday. Bars/restaurants can serve on Sunday, too. No on under 21 is allowed in a package liquor store at any time no matter what. Minors are allowed in wineries, grocery stores that sell and drug stores that sell alcohol, too. Package stores can sample wine/spirits but grocery stores can’t sample any alcoholic beverages. I can go on and on…

JD

indiana always was a PITA but while attending Miami University in Oxford OH (10 min from border) I did appreciate the hour time difference when we needed that extra time for beer and spirits…

Rick_Beard · November 24, 2009, 10:55pm

How the hell are we gonna get our customers drunk enough to buy all this overpriced yuppie-crack without a tasting license?