Parker and his cronies engaged in behavior that appeared to be conflict-ridden without disclosure or self-awareness or appreciation of irony. Lyle has been quite forthcoming in disclosing his business interests. Everybody knows that he is competing with Theise and can factor that into their assessment of the substance of the question asked in the original post. The complaining about conflicts of interest is misplaced.
First off, I am not in the wine business, just a consumer.
This thread is so mild that your well written commentary seems woefully misplaced. In fact, your business association with Lyle actually makes it incredibly self serving to my way of thinking, despite what anyone else might see.
Overall I just found the original post to be in poor taste. I don’t see Dan Kravitz posting negative commentary about Eric Solomon. I don’t see Adam Lee posting negative commentary about Kevin Harvey. What I do see is a guy who is starting up his own importing venture, taking the opportunity to use some poorly chosen words to take a shot at his competition while simultaneously posting his cooler viewpoint. Then his posse comes in to back him up when people don’t support his viewpoint.
For the record, I have ordered some of the wine that Lyle is bringing in. I wish him well in his venture. I just don’t think the commentary is appropriate given his current status.
You know, I was going to post “It’s obviously Parker’s fault,” as a joke, but I suppose it’s like Godwin’s law; if a topic concerns something remotely negative about the wine business, sooner or later someone will blame Parker and be serious about it.
Just have been skimming the Theise 2013 German catalog. Honestly, if he could have picked any of the best producers back then, why are so many missing?
Dönnhoff, Schäfer etc are brilliant producers, but a lot of the others are missing. E.g. his Rheinhessen portfolio is thin to say the least.
An now in 2013 there are still many great German producers to “discover”
Wow. I really just don’t have words. I sell wine. I have sold wine since 2002, when I first started posting on ebob. So,
Obviously every post I have ever made has been profoundly self serving. Including this one, because, I, in fact, never actually want to have a discussion about wine. I’ve never blogged about wine and have zero passion about the topic. Especially German wine. But by all means, please continue to act like I have committed some sin, because I brought something up or posted it in the wrong place. TODD, move the damn thread for the life of me!!! I’ll keep being self righteous and indignant on my blog and occasionally here. But this exhausts me like nothing other and many of my close friends keep telling me not to post here, especially since I have my own thing going. But, hell, I enjoy speaking about wine, and at the end of the day, I’ll keep hitting my head against the wall here every few months, in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, people can get past, the idea that every time I fart near this board it isn’t serving my self interest and we can have some real wine discussion. Terry said there are no good producers besides his and everyone just rolls over and agrees. He has good wine. He is not horrible, I still buy his wines for my cellar, but he said that, it is straight up wrong, and I want to discuss it. If not here, then MOVE the damn thread TODD, so everyone can stop bitching and we can talk about it.
Sorry you find my post so self-evidently ridiculous, but as you can see I’m not the first or only person to have made the observation.
Incidentally, Lyle posted pretty much the same thing he did here on his Twitter feed and nobody jumped all over him asking “Why should we listen to you? You sell wine, don’t you?” Well, duh, of course he does. Everyone knows that. We are all grownups here and can take that kind of thing into account when we read what people have to say. This board is a more interesting place when Lyle and others in the business post on it and I would hate to see them chased away.
As far as where it could have been posted and all of that, I think it’s been addressed, so I’ll let it go at that.
Obviously I’m not the only one who has said something, but I don’t think it’s “gotcha” or anything like that. Both of you are obviously open about your business interests, and I think maybe the tone of the thread was set without thinking about how it would be interpreted, and then to act like it’s wrong to point that out.
I think the question of great new winemakers is a reasonable one to be asking, and it has to start with the question of great new terroirs since it’s obviously not related (here) to great new winemakers at existing estates. I think the potential for dry red and white wines in the regions that have been mentioned stems largely from climate change, so it’s not like those terroirs were laying undiscovered for many generations with the potential they have today. Are they great? Some are. I’ve had some impressive PN from Baden. I’m sure there will be more coming. Might there be some truly great, undiscovered vineyard in the Nahe? I doubt it. Are there winemakers in Germany right now with no US representation that are as good as the established best winemakers? I doubt it. Are there quite a few that are still worth checking out whose wines can be brought in at lower prices than those of the “best” who we already know? probably. To take such offense at Terry’s statement seems either unreasonable or commercially driven, maybe a bit of both. Lyle, I think you can easily let this thing go and show people with actions and wines rather than words on a wine forum that Terry’s statements were too extreme or wrong if you think you can do so (obviously you do). Without wines in front of us, what more is there really to talk about? It’s all pretty theoretical to those of us who don’t visit the country regularly, so I don’t see the point. So, even though it’s reasonable to ask, I think it should be more of an internal question among the few people who might introduce us to an impressive new estate. Otherwise, seriously, what is the point?
I agree. I think we can comment on our thoughts about the thread in general and keep the tone civil. Lyle, as I said before, I generally appreciate your input here.
Who said every post you have ever made has been self-serving? And where in this thread is everyone just rolling over for Terry? Come on, stop with the strawmen. You’re not helping yourself with the emotional, over-the-top defense in which everything is everyone else’s fault. I genuinely appreciate your input on this board, and you certainly have an interesting and worthwhile point of view that I hope you continue to share, but if you can’t see how an OP in which you do nothing but a) take shots at a competitor, and b) quote from your retailer manifesto, is going to strike a lot of people as blatant self-promotion, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I think that the point is that anything that any ITB says is going to strike “some people” as blatant self-promotion. This blatant self-promotion will seem obvious to those same people across many threads. 16 posts per thread whining about this becomes tiresome.
Again, Lyle did not attack Terry or his business - he disagreed with a very controversial statement which, for people who care about wine, is an interesting thing to discuss.
If all the self-promotion parrots spent 2 minutes to think about the actual post and maybe post something that would contribute to the discussion, the posters and silent readers would all be better off.
In other news, I’m hoping for peace to break out in the Middle East.
Corey, you have to maybe have the mind of 2nd grader to see that every time I post, some yahoo thinks I am promoting my business or trying to sell wine. This is the reason the greatest minds in the wine world don’t post here. It’s impossible to have a reasonable discussion.
Corey, I come not here not to “help” or 'hurt" myself but to have reasonable discussions about wine where I might learn something. And that there is the rub. It doesn’t mater what I do or say, the self promotion chorus will get louder and louder as that part of the ebob zeitgeist got carried over here as previous posters have mentioned, and it is a runaway train.
And for anybody that knows me, remotely knows me, follows me, knows for a fact I would have posted this 5 years ago, 10 years ago and 15 years in the future. If there is one thing, my position in the wine world, whatever it may be, will not change my freedom of expression. So the idea I am just starting to do this now because I have my own biz is ludicrous.