And please destroy you caps lock key
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Wellā¦i think that us a briad overstatement re: alcs being more than 1% above the label . . .
Larry,
re: overstatement - you are right. I would only need to retract the part of stating 9/10 because itās more like 6-7 of 10.
Factually speaking - I have taken several (well over 20) higher end cali/Wa Cabernet samples and sent to lab for chemistry, the vast majority of those wines labeled 14.5 are between 15.2-15.8 with some over 16.5 (yes, illegal)ā¦.
many are great wines and balanced. The only point I was making is I think we all tend to talk about alcohol levels as if over 15 is bad when I donāt think most realize how much wine out there is over 15.
and how much of a waste of time it is to be focused on a labeled number.
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Indeed. My focus of the exercise was on wine chemistry not solely alcohol but I became blown away by how inaccurate label vs reality is.
I totally agree that it is not too relevant to focus on a single number when looking at wines or wineries and that the number itself may not mean much.
That said, alcohol numbers are a bit more important when looking at new wineries as they may give insight into the style of wines produced. They are the only ālegalā chemical marker that is required and therefore a number that can be compared and contrasted.
If you are looking at purchasing from a pinot producer that youāve never had in the past and you find that their pinots are in the 12.5% alcohol range vs the 15% alcohol range, this will lead you to āassumeā something about their wine style, no? It IS an assumption, and I understand where they sometimes get you, but it is a marker, no?
Cheers
Bit of a tangle you have here as what you list is illegal to have a wine labelled 14.5 that is above 15.5, but point taken on honest labelling at 16.8.
I also donāt believe your WA example of wines being that high and not labelling as such, are there a few, yes. WA has a very tough time ripening Cabernet with diurnal shift we experience, and cooler growing regions, maybe HHH, or Red Mountain in certain vintages, but most areas struggle for ripeness which is why Merlot and Syrah are such stars.
Napa I agree on potential alcohol in Cabernet being 15.5+.
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There are plenty of WA cab labeled 14.5 and come in above 15.2. We can discuss all day vintage or sites but at the end of the day the labs data doesnāt lie.
i agree with your point 100%.
with that said, if you take a central coast or santa barbara GSM producer and their labeled (i tend to always use the preface labeled for reasons discussed in this thread of course) alcohol levels are either 13.8 or 16.5 and you read into that, well i feel sorry for you, honestly.
unless you have a medical condition of course. inf thatās the case, then by all mean buy the 16.5 labeled one and just do what the 13.8 producer did in their winery, toss in some ice cubes.
Steve,
Iām not sure what your point is exactly. If a SBC CcP style blend is labeled at 13.8%, on average, it will display VERY different characteristics than an SBC CdP style blend labeled 16.5%. And it is short sighted to think that an SBC producer cannot produce a blend like this naturally under 14% - check out my 2014 Verbiage Rouge at 13.8%, and no, I did not water back to get that level. Nor did I use reverse osmosis to remove water. You might want to explore SBC a bit more to see how we can produce wonderful Rhone style blends in a wide range of alcohol (ripeness) levels.
Cheers
i was 1000% joking, i apologize if my sarcasm didnāt come off. i agree that these wines we described are likely different but i donāt think thatās really relevant. some wines have more girth than others, the sky is blue.
i may be the odd ball but but i just have never considered alcohol levels at all. my cellar has many wines likely in the 17s in actuality and in the 12s. factoring alc levels into the quality of the wine is really strange to me.
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Gotcha - and i apologize for missing the sarcasm.
I donāt think anyone is implying anything about quality with regards to alcohol levels. I think it has more to do with potential style that the wine is made in. Thatās all . . .
Cheers.
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You sure donāt owe anybody here an apology for that prose. Its natural when beginning a project so close to oneās heart to have some of the content appear hyperbolic. Its a natural evolution of any brand to find its voice over time.
Iām sure some of these board members get equally hyperbolic about stuff that matters a lot to them.
Love Rhone varietal wines from Santa Barbara County. Look forward to checking it out.
Was on Santa Rosa Road yesterday and thought I saw your sign over where Kris and Brunoās place used to be?
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Same here. Looking at alcohol levels is so ipob. People still do that?
Thank you for the kind words. That is much appreciated. Indeed, our building is next to Kris and Bruno who are still there.
That alc level is rather common among ultra-high end wines in the Rhone category from the Central Coast, especially among those aiming for high-scores. Itās just rare someone lists it as such. TeSās wines do not taste alcoholic or hot to me.
Iāve seen (and run) lab numbers for many top Rhone wines that have been receiving 97-100pts and they are often 16%+, regardless of what it says on the label. Napa is not immune. Here is a recent lab report run recently showing listed vs actual alcohol on some top wines from my neck of the woods.
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I donāt want to come off as some alcohol tyrant, as I donāt believe alcohol % correlates to wine quality in any meaningful sense. What I do believe alcohol % correlates to is consumer preference or choice and by having higher alcohol percentages you may eliminate potential consumers for a variety of reasons.
For me, personally, we drink a lot of Cru Beaujolais, but have a cellar full of SQN, Saxum, and Alban as I enjoy a wide variety of wines that I find well made, by process of elimination I donāt have space for another 16%+ producer from CA, regardless of the quality proposition as I want to have an assortment. That and some weeknights Iād like to have 2 glasses and not feel fuzzy in the morning.
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Sao,
Great point - but . . . if you are not familiar with a winery or their āstyleā, that one marker can give you potential insight, no? Does it tell you if you are going to ālikeā a wine? Of course not - but if you like big, rich ripe Napa cabs and see one listed at 12.8%, you might jump to the conclusion that it might not be āyour styleā. I know what happens when you āassumeā but it may be an indicator, right?
Iāve had a few of the terre et sang wines as they poured next to me at HdR this year and I enjoyed them - as Roy said, they are ābalancedā for what they are. And they are in the process of opening a pretty substantial tasting room in Los Olivos for those who will be visiting the area in early 2023.
Cheers.
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Only 9 of the 40 wines listed were more than 1% above the claimed abv. You first claimed 9/10, then 6-7/10, and in reality itās 2-3/10 (according to Royās numbers). So, yes, you were exaggerating no matter how you slice it.
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