I opened a 2022 Ramey Fort Ross-Seaview at dinner last night. We had a friend of my wife over and after her first sip she commented “Ahh, this is made with Oak in the fermentation”. As the dinner moved along and the wine became less chilled, I said to my wife that I thought the wine was becoming more tastier and she agreed. Her friend commented that this improvement was because the “Oak flavor is being removed as the wine aerates.”
I didn’t sense that the wine was noticeably oaky at my first taste, and I didn’t know that the taste of oak in a wine can be lessened with aeration. I kept my mouth shut in both cases, but questioned myself about how little I know about why and how oak is used in winemaking and if wines made with oak need aeration to make their taste profile more appealing. I am not looking to critique our guests comments, but to learn something that I don’t know.
Thanks.
As I was saying . . .
So I went and educated myself a bit on the use of oak in winemaking. But I could use some help in a couple of aspects of drinking wine that has an oak “presence”. I am talking about white wines in this case.
-How do oak influences show in a white wine when they are subtle? (I think that I can detect the strong presence of oak when it is there.)
-Do the tastes in the wine that are due to oak lessen as the wine aerates? Do they lessen as the wine ages.
Thanks.
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Look for flavors of vanilla, toast, smoke, cedar (if overpronounced), clove. There are others - I don’t have my full list with me. In general, I can detect vanilla at very low concentrations and that is my tell.
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I don’t think the oak subdued with aeration. Rather, I suspect that as the wine warmed up and was aerated, the fruit aromatics became more pronounced and the wine was brought into better balance.
This makes sense to me, Tariq.
Thanks for answering both of my questions 
This is definitely not true. Most aromatic oak compounds have low volatility - they don’t evaporate easily - and are very stable. This is why an empty glass of Bourbon smells so woody, and why warm woody and vanilla notes are some of the ones that linger longest on the skin in perfumery. I like Tariq’s point about the other components coming to the fore as the wine aerates. That is very much the case.
There’s also a difference in the flavors you get from fermenting in oak vs just aging in oak. It is quite hard to explain using comparison words, because the overall aromatic profile of barrel fermentation is a very distinctive one, but you are definitely familiar with it if you’ve had enough Chardonnay.
Id recommend buying a super oaky white rioja. (I love these wines btw.) Total wines sells Valserrano Gran Reserva for ~60$. Make sure to use a coupon since its winery direct! I really enjoy that wine, and it is markedly oaky. I feel like of you drink that it will become more obvious to you in the future. Not that I’m an expert!
Fermentation and aging in oak is more complicated and nuanced than overt oak flavors, to the point that I would actually suggest picking up a set of wines that specifically are aged in stainless steel to best get a feel for what aging in barrel adds.
Chardonnay would be a good choice here, as there are reputable examples of both, and oftentimes producers who are into stainless fermentation and aging will proclaim it somewhere. The biggest impact of barrel fermentation and aging that I see is the breathability of barrels. Getting a feel for the action of a vessel that “breathes” (barrels) vs. one that does not (stainless) is a really good difference to get a feel for to start, and in my mind more important than what oak itself tastes like.
For wine fermented and/or aged in oak, whether the “classic” oak flavors that everyone thinks of and mentions are apparent or not, and whether they integrate over time is its own question, and one that is harder to say. “Try this wine and you will know it” can give you an idea of some aromatics and aromas, but oak aromas and flavors will be different according to toast level, cooper, even the forest that the wood was taken from. Whether the wine and wood integrate, or the wood flavors and tannins lay on top, can depend on the barrel, but it also depends on the wine itself: alcohol level, intensity and flavor tones of the wine, vintage, tannin, time in barrel, size of barrel…. on and on and on, all of these factors matter. One of the biggest “woah!” moments for me with oak (and it didn’t provide answers, but more questions) was when I was able to attend a cooperage tasting, where the barrel rep had samples of different producers wines, from different growing regions and countries even. The difference in how much the oak “showed” with the same barrel and different wine was profound, and completely destroyed my confidence that I knew how new wood in wine presented.
The differences in presentation of new wood does not even include the differences of oak barrels that are new, versus “once filled”(where this is their second time being used) or “neutral” (generally anything older than once filled, though a barrel will definitely continue to evolve and change between it’s third time being filled and it’s 6th time being filled. A wine fermented and aged in 4 year old oak barrels will be very different from one aged in new wood or even once-fills…. but they are all very much fermented/aged in oak, even if they do not present as if they were from a oak flavor standpoint.
…. bringing me back to my first suggestion: the best starting point to see what wood does for wine is to taste wine specifically made in stainless.
Thanks for putting this together, Megan.
And Happy New Year to you and to Marcus.
Thank you so much for taking the time to type all this out, Megan. I learned a lot.
As others have said, all aromatic compounds become more pronounced as a wine warms up - oak, fruit, even VA
To completely understand any white wine, have it chilled and then follow it as it approaches room temperature. You will find that not only do the aromatics change, but the texture does as well. In addition, perceived sweetness will generally increase as it warms too.
As others have said, the easiest way to compare and contrast wines with and without oak is to have an oaked Chardonnay vs a stainless aged one.
Cheers
My epiphany with oak was drinking some old dead-as-doornails overoaked Cali Chards. Only thing left when all fruit has long since died is like oak juice. Its the essence of oak in liquid form. Some 20+ year old mid-grade Cali Chardonnay usually works.
After that, its pretty easy to recognize the oak flavor profile on almost anything. Lesson cost is like $20 from Winebid.
To me, the oak flavor epiphany was Innis & Gunn Original Ale. It doesn’t even taste like beer, it’s just oak juice. Even cheaper than old Cali Chardonnay.
But yeah, oak aging is not only about oak flavors. I dislike new oak aromatics and flavors, but I still think great wines almost invariably call for aging in oak. There’s just a world of difference in aging a wine for 12 months new oak barriques and 18-24 months in ancient foudres!