Some random thoughts, mainly about alcohol

[larry_schaffer]

Truly an interesting discussion - thanks for all that have taken part. Can’t wait to see what others have to say.

Here are a couple of ‘conventional wisdom’ questions that need to be asked:

• Does it matter if it’s white versus red for the higher alcohol ‘effects’ to be felt?
• Does it matter if it’s a ‘European’ wine versus a domestic wine? Folks tend to believe the issues are not as great with the former versus the latter.
• Does it matter if the wine has seen a higher percentage of new oak?
• Does it matter the variety - cab vs syrah vs pinot?
• Does it matter if the the wine is ‘organic’ or ‘biodynamic’ or ‘sustainable’ or none of the above?

Cheers.

[brigcampbell]

Side drift, do you get stuffy noses with drinking wine? If so, does it seem to have a greater response to higher ABV wines?

I know people like saying it’s sulfites but that’s BS for 99% Are there people that are sulfite sensitive? Sure. Way more people are sensitive to histamine.

Histamines are the culprit.

a compound which is released by cells in response to injury and in allergic and inflammatory reactions, causing contraction of smooth muscle and dilation of capillaries.

There are naturally occurring histamines in wood so more oak the bigger the response is for me. Whites I drink are neutral/no oak so I don’t really see it with them.

Histamine is present in a variety of fermented products such as wine, aged cheeses, and sauerkraut. Red wine has 20–200% more histamine than white wine, and those who react to it may be deficient in the enzyme diamine oxidase.

There’s a really easy way to test if it’s the histamines. Drink a wine that is known to cause a reaction for you and then take a benadryl before going to bed. The anti-histamine will help with the stuffy nose and aid in sleeping. That’s what’s in Tylenol PM.

[Anton_D]

Side drift, do you get stuffy noses with drinking wine? If so, does it seem to have a greater response to higher ABV wines?

I know people like saying it’s sulfites but that’s BS for 99% Are there people that are sulfite sensitive? Sure. Way more people are sensitive to histamine.

Histamines are the culprit.

a compound which is released by cells in response to injury and in allergic and inflammatory reactions, causing contraction of smooth muscle and dilation of capillaries.

There are naturally occurring histamines in wood so more oak the bigger the response is for me. Whites I drink are neutral/no oak so I don’t really see it with them.

Histamine is present in a variety of fermented products such as wine, aged cheeses, and sauerkraut. Red wine has 20–200% more histamine than white wine, and those who react to it may be deficient in the enzyme diamine oxidase.

There’s a really easy way to test if it’s the histamines. Drink a wine that is known to cause a reaction for you and then take a benadryl before going to bed. The anti-histamine will help with the stuffy nose and add in sleeping. That’s what in Tylenol PM.

Not thinking of histamine.

That’s a whole 'nother topic!

For some people, beer and wine (intact products of natural fermentation) cause blood vessels in the nose to dilate and make stuffiness, not histamine related at all.

[Robert.A.Jr]

My concierge physician happens to be in our wine group. All of us are over 50, athletes, and all work too hard, push too hard. For himself, and us, he’s been doing a lot of research on this subject, and has outlined some pretty basic tenets to balance these things. His central point is that deep, quality sleep, is critical to longevity and an active older age. His recommendations are not ground-breaking, they are pretty intuitive really, but I bet most (like me) violate them most days:

you guys should get business cards or something for this.

No need. Shows in our chiseled physiques.

[Robert.A.Jr]

• No more than 2 glasses per night
• Last glass 3 hours before bed
• Wine with food
• no coffee past noon
• no working out 2-3 hours before bed
• snack before bed recommended
• hot shower or bath before bed
• no iPhones or laptops in bed - something about the emitted light stimulates the brain
• read before bed

That’s some pretty good advice. The one that surprises me is the snack, unless it’s something light, like a yogurt. I remember reading that the half life of caffeine in your system is on the order of 8 hours. So if you drink coffee at noon, you still have a quarter of that caffeine circulating around at 4am! I’m always amazed by people who can have an espresso at 10p after dinner, I’d be bouncing off the walls in the middle of the night

Can a snack before bed include a shot of single malt?

Typically low carb, good protein, like a turkey cold cut, cheese stick, etc.

Low glycemic index, keeps glucose steady for those whose sleep may suffer that way.

Yogurt fits the bill for me. Like a dessert, really.

My friend’s advice is practical as well, as people like their coffee, and some of us that burn too many candles, perhaps like it more than we should. I love a cup at the 5-6 PM time, but know it’s not the smartest thing. Then I need an additional glass of wine to bring it back down. And so starts the cycle, lol.

[Robert.A.Jr]

FWIW, I’m not sure that I can discern the difference between 13% and 14.5% over three glasses of wine over an evening, but perhaps it does and effects me anyway. Sometimes I actually prefer Single Malts over wine, and a couple don’t really make me feel any different than the wine. I cannot discern a difference. Love my Scotch, but do not really care for high alcohol wines, certainly not the modernized bombs.

[David_Bu3ker]

German Riesling is wonderful.

Drinking an 8% alcohol 2001 Riesling Spatlese that goes great with my veggie Thai curry, and can take me through and after the meal with no regrets.

[Neal.Mollen]

Tom - this can be caused by a drop in blood sugar levels. The body’s response to alcohol is to produce insulin, which can drop your blood sugar levels a few hours after drinking.

I don’t drink during the day because of this effect and try to limit how much I drink in the evening like you.

So you drink at breakfast?

[Robert.A.Jr]

Tom - this can be caused by a drop in blood sugar levels. The body’s response to alcohol is to produce insulin, which can drop your blood sugar levels a few hours after drinking.

I don’t drink during the day because of this effect and try to limit how much I drink in the evening like you.

So you drink at breakfast?

I’ve been marathon-watching Madmen. Did people drink like that in that era? Or any era? Wow.

[Frank_Murray_III]

Anton, I don’t care for Port, Scotch and spirit-based drinks so I can’t shed any light on your questions.

My initial post was my pause button, stopping to think about this topic, and to share. Being older now, as opposed to when I started into this hobby 30 years ago, has become enlightening about how to drink and treat the hobby. Ultimately, I am just trying to convey that things have changed for me and the editing process for me is underway again.

[R_M_Kriete]

Histamines are the culprit.
[

Have a friend who after years of enjoying wine, was on the verge of quitting due to headaches and generally feeling poorly after drinking wine. She starting taking a Claritin 30 min before imbibing and now she can pound the vino like the rest of us with no ill effects.

[Philip_G]

Tom - this can be caused by a drop in blood sugar levels. The body’s response to alcohol is to produce insulin, which can drop your blood sugar levels a few hours after drinking.

I don’t drink during the day because of this effect and try to limit how much I drink in the evening like you.

So you drink at breakfast?

Ha, yes. Like Winston Churchill a glass of whiskey in bed before starting the day

[Ian_S]

My initial post was my pause button, stopping to think about this topic, and to share. Being older now, as opposed to when I started into this hobby 30 years ago, has become enlightening about how to drink and treat the hobby. Ultimately, I am just trying to convey that things have changed for me and the editing process for me is underway again.

Reevaluation is a good thing. It might catch on, and you’d be the trendsetter. There would be people skipping a few nights per week drinking!

[Charlie_Carnes]

FWIW, I’m not sure that I can discern the difference between 13% and 14.5% but perhaps it does and effects me anyway.

It does, we just don’t tell you.

[Charlie_Carnes]

Frank, I feel you with the alcohol. I don’t like the higher ABV wines either, but it’s generally a style thing and not just the alcohol. I think there are plenty of good thought/excuses/explanations for the pain you feel after drinking. I, at 50 now, have been dealing with the same thing. I ain’t stoppin’ anytime soon though. I drink a ton of water, make sure I eat, pop a few Advil, etc, but sometimes nothing seems to work. My hangovers now are almost migraine-like.

I am with you in terms of Champagne too, and you know it! I bet it is about 50% of my consumption. I LOVE the stuff!

[Charlie_Carnes]

My concierge physician happens to be in our wine group. All of us are over 50, athletes, and all work too hard, push too hard. For himself, and us, he’s been doing a lot of research on this subject, and has outlined some pretty basic tenets to balance these things. His central point is that deep, quality sleep, is critical to longevity and an active older age. His recommendations are not ground-breaking, they are pretty intuitive really, but I bet most (like me) violate them most days:

You are so right with the sleep thing.

My resting heart rate is around 55-60 when I drink even a little too much. When I have none or a moderate amount, it is generally around 45-47.

[Alan_Rath]

I too struggle to understand how the absolute alcohol volume isn’t the key factor, regardless of what wine (or spirit) it comes from. But I don’t doubt experience. I wonder if that has something to do with how we consume different types of drinks? I probably down a mixed drink faster than I would a glass of wine, partly because it’s volume is typically less, partly because it’s easier to drink in most cases. I think I also drink champagne more slowly than most still wine, maybe because of the carbonation? Maybe it’s easier to take bigger gulps of a more forward, more alcoholic wine, an smaller sips of a leaner wine?

Just throwing out some ideas that might explain some of the difference in experience. I know for sure that a cocktail will hit me faster than a glass of wine, for example. Almost certainly because it has more alcohol concentration, less total volume, and is usually pretty easy to drink - I’m typically not swirling, smelling, savoring a cocktail the way I would a nice wine.

[Wes_Barton]

The weird extreme experience I had was with some 190 proof spirits a friend brought. Being at work, the best seeming choice to blend it with was Snapple. Being somewhat smart, we carefully measured 1/3 ounce shots to add to our 16 ounce Snapples, put the lids on and shook. After drinking about 3 ounces we were instantly drunk. Maybe Clark Smith would say we didn’t give it time to form colloids around the EtOH molecules or something… It certainly hadn’t blending in proportionally, so it was drawn right into our tissue and into our bloodstreams. Since the total amount of alcohol was so small and there was no further input, we were completely sober 10 or 15 minutes later. Not particularly enjoyable, so I used the rest of mine to spit fireballs.

[Otto_Forsberg]

The absorption rate of alcohol depends on the alcohol content, so more alcohol is absorbed in a certain duration of time from a wine at 15% compared to a wine at 12,5%. This absorption rate increases up to 20-25%-ish ABV, after which the absorption rate stays pretty much the same. In that aspect it makes sense how even an identical amount of alcohol in grams enjoyed in the form of beer, low-alcohol wine, high-alcohol wine and fortified wine can have different effects on a person.

However, what makes it interesting is that carbonation increases alcohol absorption rate. Alcohol from a 12,5% sparkling wine might be absorbed into the body at the same rate as a still high-alcohol wine.

And of course it should be remembered that drinking alcohol with food retards the absorption rate into the body, making the blood alcohol levels peak much lower, spreading it over a longer period of time.

[Jeff_Vaughan]

I like scotch, but I tend to only have one smallish pour, when I am not drinking anything else. I don’t drink enough to really feel it.

When I drink Port, it is usually a very small pour, almost always after a longer night of eating and drinking, where I have already had many glasses of wine. It would be hard to single out the effect of the port versus the quantity of the rest of what I drank.

I notice the difference in wine from 12.5% to 15.5% when I am sharing a bottle of wine with my wife, with food, and I don’t want to feel the alcohol.