Sold my Carruades -- Now sell my Lafite?

WINE TALK
1

Yes, the sale of Carruades is a no-brainer at $200-$300 per – ten times what I paid, but Lafite is approaching that excessively priced level too – should I sell it? The 1988 Lafite Mag I bought for $150 in early 90’s is probably worth $2,000 now?! – that’s a LOT of 1989 Angelus, which is probably a better wine(?). Such a dilemma. Who’s selling or sold . . . who’s holding and why?

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2

If you know that you will surely enjoy a case of 1989 Angelus over the 1 mag of 1988 Lafite, then I would surely sell it quickly. There isn’t a need for you to hold something that you don’t like, or can find value in something else. . . especially if it’s essentially a 1 for 6 trade-off (in your Angelus example).

Do sell the Lafite within the next 3 years though . . . I do not think that Lafite will continue to rise endlessly . . . just my 2 cents.

3

Which vintage of Carruades did you sell?

4

Apropos of nothing in particular, but [u]Maureen Nelson[/u] once asserted that the IRS considers wine to be a “collectible”, which does not qualify for the capital gains tax rate.

So if you do this on the up-and-up, then keep in mind that your gain will be subject to the full weight of the taxation for your income bracket.

Kinda puts a damper on things - that $600 or more of your gain heads straight to Washington, DC [and, from there, it’s repackaged and sent around the world to our Chicom masters - which is kinda ironic, in that they will almost certainly be the ones bidding on Lafite at auction].

Some days it really sucks to understand how the world works.

Ignorance is bliss.

PS: I suppose you could attempt to approach a wine merchant and barter for a trade “in-kind”, but then Maureen will probably get on here and say that that’s illegal, too [if not with the IRS, then with the local ABC].

PPS: If a wine merchant [or a winery, with, say, a library release] realizes a huge profit in this fashion, then are they hit with a “collectibles” tax, or do they get to itemize it as a business would itemize any other piece of inventory?

5

It’s been interesting to watch the Lafite price spriral. I bought some 2002s at $100/btl to drink, but if they hit $1000.00 per 750 on the WMJ auction averages it makes no sense to hold them.
What I thought is interesting is the last quarterly auction averages for 2002 Lafite show $830/btl for the 750s, but only $1094/btl for the mags. Seems to be a definite ‘trophyist’ skew.

6

I sold my '02 Lafite too. Bought at the same price. No-brainer decision for me, only wish I had bought more.
But those numbers are surprising to me - usually trophy wines usually come with a huge price premium for large format bottles. This is because large format bottles are a transparent proxy to project one’s, um, manhood. After all, for all other purposes, two 750ml’s is the same as one magnum. But the obsessive collector of large format bottles wants to be the envy of the room, to have it known far and wide he’s got the largest package.

I guess Chinese culture is different…

7

If those 2002 Lafites where sold in Asia, then the difference between 750ml and Mags isn’t surprising. They like 750ml more than large formats. In fact, large formats usually don’t sell that well at all over in the Chinese market.

8

With Lafite, wonder if the vintage even matters these days? No question, the 82 and 86 are drinking great, as well as the 95, 98 and a host of other years. All of them are clearly selling at a large premium, but a not so great drinking wine like the 93 still sells in the $500 to $800 range?

9

You should sell the Lafite in individual gift baskets, complete with the can of Coke, a wine glass, and maybe a corkscrew. Kind of like they do with margarita sets:

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10

I sold ALL my carruades – why keep any of it as I find it OK but uninspiring in any vintage. Correct that most any Lafite Vintage is climbing in price – sold my '99 Magnum for $1,400 . . . but I wouldn’t expect the '88 Magnum to buy a case of '89 Angelus since Angelus is now $250++? Great wine though.

How odd that the Chinese market ignores magnums when magnums are so coveted elsewhere – obtaining a premium over 2 750 btls even for futures and at release . . .?

11

I had a 1982 Carruades “Moulin de” last summer that was just Fantastic!

My question is: If I have 2 or 3 750ml. 2000’s, does the auction price that I would get signify that these bottles will eventually make their way to Asia? Are exporters buying these up and bundling pallets for shipment abroad or are these single bottles being enjoyed here in the states by wealthy collectors that are willing to pay the $$$?

12

That’s because those chinese are very astute wine buyers, and they don’t let those big bottles sucker them into paying a premium. neener

13

Keith,

The huge premium for large format bottles has all but disappeared. A big part of that premium was caused by one person (and trade bidders underneath him hoping he missed the auction and would flip it to him) who bough a bevy of large formats for six or seven years. He then became a seller, not a buyer. He tried to remain as anonymous as possible so your comment of wanting it to be known far and wide does not apply.

14

To Gary’s original question. Yes and no. Yes, because the price is high, the gain is huge, and as my wife says, you can’t spend an unrealized gain. And I’ve sold the bulk of my Lafite over the last year, most recently this week. But no, because it appears the price is on a trajectory that will not quit, so if you’re happy with speculation, hang on and my guess is you’ll do even better in a year.

15

I sold my Lafite (a modest 6 bottles) in the past 6 months. Happy with the wine I parlayed the profits into.

Tom

16

I don’t have any Lafite (except for a 2001 which was given to me as a gift), but I asked myself a similar question when I looked at my Carruades that I purchased back in the late 1990s/early 2000. It all came down to how much I thought I would enjoy the wine…vs what else I could get for today’s price if I purchased something else with the money. I certainly enjoyed the ones I drank, but the decision was pretty easy knowing that there were way more wines out there that I wanted to try, and know I would enjoy more.

Ended up trading 5 bottles of Carruades for a case of 2003 Pichon Baron & a huge chunk of change leftover (enough to get another 1/2 case of same PB). Easy decision for me. Of course, it might be a more difficult decision if you are really curious about that bottle of Lafite…

17

For those prices…sell most, keep a couple.

18

Earlier I sold half my case of Carruades with the thought that I would keep a few bottles to enjoy down the road. However, with the price having doubled since then, I just sold the remaining bottles. There is just too much good wine out there to keep an average wine like that sitting in the cellar.

19

I had no idea that Lafite shot up like this. I was told that there is a big, irrational Chinese market based on placing this wine on a trendy Chinese TV show and the fact that it’s one of the few Bordeaux they can pronounce.
Anyway, I have one bottle of 88 and Winesearcher says it goes for $1200 (about 14 times what I paid)

Any ideas on how to sell this just 1 bottle?

20

I don’t have much Lafite (I would sell the Carruades), so I am not selling the few bottles I have. I doubt I will ever be able to afford it again especially the vinatges I have. I will enjoy them or use them to participate in a tasting down the road. While I could parlay them into more wine, I don’t really need more wine either.