What a loaded question, right? For some perspective my favorite producer and the largest Piemonte producer in my cellar is Giacosa. Also have a fair amount of A Conterno (from the big sale a few years ago), D Clerico, Produttori, Massolino, G&F Mascarello. I didn’t own any Barolo/Barbaresco and I’m not sure that I had even tasted any before the 2000 vintage came out. At that time I was about 5 years in to this wine hobby and I read the glowing WS report of the “vintage of the century” so I bought a mixed case of some of those wines. At about the same time I went to two Piemonte tastings and was blown away by these wines I had never tried. I’ve found that I favor the traditional producers because when I tried some of my original purchases some of the wines were just too extracted. I might have liked them 10 years ago but then at that time I had a lot of Shiraz in my cellar because of the ratings, but have since found them too over the top for my taste.
Now most of my Piemonte wines are 2000 or younger though I am fortunate to have a wife who also loves the wines, so I do have a few bottles, from great producers, of '58, '64, '71, '82, and a few cases through the '90’s. Of course I would prefer to drink bottles with 30 to 50 years of age on a regular basis, but that just isn’t going to happen. And at age 63 I have to take in to account how many years I have left before my palate is shot, I guess at that point it won’t make any difference. I’ve enjoyed '00 Giacosa and A. Conterno lately, tried a '96 Giacosa and wondered if it will ever be ready. I have found I like CA cabs with 7 or 8 years of age, CdP at about 10 and Northern Rhone at 12-15. Burgundy is the largest part of my cellar but I certainly can’t figure out drinking windows for that. From reading the board opinions about Burgundy windows, I’ve come to the conclusion that if I don’t like it, I either opened it too soon or I’m too old to know good Burgundy when I taste it!
So, do any of you have any rules of thumb for Barolo/Barbaresco drinking windows? At age 10 to 13 is anyone drinking '01’s or '04’s? If not, how long do you plan to wait? Looking forward to some discussion.
Not really a rule of thumb. My buying started a little earlier than yourself, so I’ve got decent representation of late 1990s (early 1990s generally being very patchy). I’ve tried to pick up mature wines when I can, but oddly mostly from 60s and 70s, rather than the 80s.
I’d happily crack 2000 or 1997 wines now, as I don’t think (in general) they’ll be great cellaring prospects, but can be very pleasing now (2000s have been pretty good for me so far).
I’d rather hold onto 1998s and 1999s, but the ones I have opened have been good if drunk with food, but none have been anywhere near mature. 1996s and 2001/2004 forwards are in my mind still buried in the cellar.
So in summary, for certain warm/open/lighter vintages (and ditto for producers who make softer wines), there is less argument to ‘wait, wait, wait’, but for those built for the long term, I’d recommend sitting tight for as long as possible. Let’s say
Warm/Open/light vintage/producer - dabble from release but with food to match. At 15 years + the need for robust food should be less important
‘Normal vintage/producer’ - Try to hold to at least 10 years from vintage, but ideally 15 (always with suitable food), and maybe 5-10 years after that the food becomes less essential
‘Robust/vin du garde/Tight’ - Just lock it away for 20 years (from vintage) and only carefully dabble until you see them start to open (I do also take note of CT notes from others to give me this hint)
I’m conscious of some pretty appalling generalisations I’m making above, and I really don’t think you can in any way be ‘accurate’. When properly mature (to my palate - maybe adding another decade onto ‘food less essential’), there can be immense bottle variation, from the sublime to sink-cleaners.
It would really interest me on what others here think Do they see the distinction of whether food is a factor on drinking early? Do they try to dabble throughout or just lock wines away for 2 decades before trying?
I like my nebbiolo old, so for me I figure 20 years plus for the better vintages. Many 88s, 93s, 95s and 98s can be enjoyable as those were less stern vintages, and 99s can be good on the right day. The 2000s are supposed to be pleasant now, but I’ve never owned any, so I don’t know. I haven’t touched my 96s or 01s or anything more recent.
Looking back further, don’t even think about 89s. The 78s seem to be just entering their real drinking window. Whether the wines from the 90s on need that much time is an interesting question. There’s been enough change in winemaking, that we don’t really know yet.
As Ian said, the context is very, very important. A wine that might seem like an assault on your palate drunk alone or with the wrong food, could be very pleasing with red meat, a dish with a meet reduction, or some such.
I have been buying only in the past 10 years and more so in the past 4-5 years. Most were current release wines only. I purchased a few older wines from 1996 and 1997.
I have had the opportunity to taste older wines as part of structured tasting or while travelling through Italy. Some of the older wines great. Others were just older wines without any x factor and many others were shot. Finding older wines with good provenance is extremely tricky. By and large the storage in Italy was deplorable.
Thus, I would love to buy older wines for my cellar to experience the thrill of drinking mature Barolo/Barbaresco and would be willing to pay a premium for good producers with impeccable provenance but I haven’t found a solution.
Consequently, I drink them young because:
I don’t have 30year old mature wines
I am new to the region and trying to still get a feel for all the different producers and vineyards
Beggars cannot be choosers.
Some of my most profound wine experiences have been with Barolo and Barbaresco from the late '50s and '60s. No, I’m not like Klapp where I drink those kinds of wine with supper 5 times a week, but I’ve had some nice occasions. Well stored mature Nebbiolo is absolutely world class wine. That said, are we all going to wait for wines from the 2000’s to have 50 years of bottle age? Who’s even going to be alive by then, or cogent? I prefer it mature, but I’ll happily drink my B and B at 10 years or even younger. I don’t mind the tannins, on the contrary, unless there are intrusive dry wood tannins.
No, not talking about no stupid new paradigm here like some allude too. Very few modernist wines that I find worthy of drinking. Young Barolo with a little air and some food or even just a well aged Parmiggiano is gorgeous. You won’t get the soft seductive texture and evolved complex aromatics, but still fantastic wine. One of the great pleasures is experiencing it evolve slowly in the glass, which I prefer to 10 or how many hours decant to try and hit some ideal window of openness. (Actually, a pet peeve of mine. Great wine should be enjoyed and savored with time and patience, rather than in lineups of tens of other wines where one has a small glass and moves on. It’s my impression a lot of great wine is tasted and scored rather than drunk and truly experienced and appreciated. /rant)
In short drink it youngish, and old. And inbetween.
Michael, not so. I’ll drink even the most traditional producers young, though of course mature is a more enticing ideal. Yes, some of them make wine a little less austere today than 20 years ago, but many have not changed greatly.
Most of the wines I imagine you have in mind as “made to be approachable young” have little interest to me.
I had the pleasure and good fortune of tasting a lot of mature Produttori with impeccable provenance ten years ago.The '67s were particularly great, and holdning up very well. I think the oldest I had was a '65. If your bottle is sound Craig you’re most likely in for a treat.
I’ve been buying nebbiolo in significant quantities (for me) since the 2004 vintage, though the bulk is 2006+. As stated already, it depends on the producer and the vintage. When I started buying, I bought without much regard to the style of the producer. I therefore have a mix of mid-level modern and traditional wines in my cellar. Much of the more modern stuff was clearly made to be more accessible early. At this stage, I’m not convinced these will age gracefully past their teenage years (though I hope I’m wrong). So I’m now starting to look at opening some of these soon. This is partly because I want to check in on them and partly because I need the cellar space for ‘upgrades.’
As for the traditional producers with track records of going long (many of them wines the OP has acquired), I’m planning to wait until ~20 years post vintage to check in on them and hopefully significant consumption won’t occur until more like 30.
It depends on what you want from the wine. Ian, Geir and Greg have alluded to this in some of their discussions. For me, the fact that you CAN drink a younger Nebb without stripping the enamel off your teeth does not mean that you necessarily want to drink it young. Tertiary development in Barolo and Barbaresco is what I want in Nebb. Vineyard management and vinification techniques make younger Nebb more approachable but the aromatics and flavors have not evolved enough for me. There are plenty of other wines I drink if I want more fruit.
For my tastes, for most good producers, 78s, 82s, 85s, 88s, 90s and 95s are drinking well. In fact, I think many 85s and 90s that were not well stored are on the downhill side of their evolution. And well stored 78s, 82s 88s and 95s are still infants. I drink an occasional younger Nebb, but only to check on their evolution. Hot years like 1997, 2000 and 2007 are drinkable early, but they are not a style that I seek out. 96, 98, 99, 01, 04, 05, 06 and 08 are not ready for my tastes. For Michael Monie, the 09s are probably over the hill. (Sorry Michael, I couldn’t resist.) Greg, whose opinion I value as much or more than anyone, says 14 years. I think 14 years is a good time to look in on the wines.
Tom,
I agree with everything you said and I prefer to drink them after 25 to 30 years in the cellar, but the reality is at 63 it may be a gamble as to whether I will live to see some of these wines in their prime. I hope I will still be enjoying a glass or two in 20 years and even though my genetics indicate I should make it past 90 with no problem, I wonder if I will still enjoy wine as I do now or will I not really care what I’m drinking. Too many unknowns I guess for even a general rule. Just wondered what others in the same boat were planning to do.
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Looks like i better work on those many cases of 78s i have stocked away…
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