This is the problem of futures to me: if the wines go up in value, the merchants have the habit of defaulting since its inconvenient to deliver, and the consumer ‘contract’ is weak. And of course if the wines are plentiful, and have even gone down in price, and paying ahead of time didn’t make sense, then of course, the wines will be delivered.
It’s crazy that this is happening with S-L, who had a blue chip reputation, and was not regarded as some sketchy startup.
What’s weak about the contract? Seems like first week of 1L contracts: The buyer’s damages are based on the fair market value of the item contracted for at the time of expected delivery.
It’s been a long time since I bought anything pre-arrival. Do the contracts now have some “heads we win, tails you lose” provisions?
have you gotten a hold of someone at Sherry’s for a better answer?
I haven’t gotten a better answer yet. They have had their customer service respond in email for 2 years now. A customer service person last year tried to get me to have them pay me back my original money – obviously the wine is worth more than that now. When I called directly their sales person said he would get back to me, but never did. This doesn’t help their store. I don’t know why they think this is ok to string customers like me along like this.
Effectively yes. At one point someone had shared TW’s specific T&C for pre arrivals, and they were super one sided. Maybe they were an outlier, but Sherry Lehman appears to be acting as if they can’t or won’t honor the deal. The gist seems to be that if its inconvenient or costs more than they expect to procure the wines, or if any part of the supply chains fails them, the consumer wears all that risk. There was some thread earlier about how a merchant warehouseman managed to ‘break’ all the cases of 2015 Canon a customer had paid for on futures, and that it was ‘unavailable’ in the market anymore.
I don’t think futures have made any sense for 99% of estates/buyers for more than a decade. It’s a mugs game.
Wow! Makes John Fox sound like an up-and-up guy. He generally acknowledged that he owed the customer something of equivalent value, anyway.
I think the issue is from a consumer perspective, you don’t really have an obvious contract (that they can look at) that specifies very much at all, its just an order confirmation. If one really presses and wants to see the governing T&C, they maybe get steered to a website and then the one sided boilerplate is discovered. And for those rare cases when buying futures made sense - like buying 2015 Canon for sub $100 or whatnot - the eager buyers are so excited to have sourced any supply, they are unlikely to look close enough into the fine print.
Maybe a hard nosed lawyer will know their rights well enough that they can push back when a merchant is trying to unwind the deal by handing back their cash, but I suspect the typical customer just gives up, and licks their wounds, and abandons the the prearrival game until the next VOTC
It’s a positive sign that they’re willing to refund the original payment. You obviously want and are entitled to the pre-paid wine, but it sounds like the people you’re communicating with have no answers. You can rant and rave and bitch but it seems like there’re 2 choices. Accept your money back or wait.
If you choose to wait, you can try harder to get a response. One option is physically walking in to the store and asking. If that’s too inconvenient, you can try calling and asking for a manager. You can try looking up specific names to ask for (I found some in a quick Zoom Info search). You can send an old fashioned letter documenting your purchase and communication efforts. Establishing a specific contact to communicate with periodically has value IMHO.
At the end of the day, you’ll still be left with your 2 choices. I suppose there might be legal options but the chances of spending more money than you’d gain seem high…but I’m not a lawyer.
Hopefully it works out.
RT
I think you need to go up the food chain at Sherry Lehmann. You should speak directly with the Bordeaux buyer. Sorry you are going through this.
If you paid, there’s a contract.* The question is just what the terms are. Their web page on pre-arrivals doesn’t provide any of the fine print, however. How much do you want to guess that they only send that after you’ve given them your credit card info?
Caveat: I am no longer a licensed attorney. I only play one on Wine Berserkers.
* Dredging up 1L contracts… there is a weird twist, which is that your purchase is usually deemed to be an offer that they accept. So, until they take your money, there may not be a contract. The seller’s original “offer” is usually treated as an invitation to the prospective purchaser to make an offer.
IIRC that web page of the supposed T&C has changed a few times over the years. And unless people were of the mindset to screen shot everything contemporaneously when ordering, they may not have any of the wine or protections they think they paid for.
Been a while since I bought futures from them (pricing rarely great), but they were always legit. Be a shame if they have changed for the worse. They were one of the classic NYC wine stores.
Sherry sold me a couple of cases of Canon 2015 for $85. By the time it arrived four years later, they would have had to pay $250. They did not renege.
I like the idea of walking into the store. I will do that. It’s just such a shame that a store that used to have such a good reputation, is treating customers this way. I’m open to any social media ideas that anyone may have to get more attention here. People should not be buying futures from Sherry-Lehmann if they treat their customers this way.
The cost to cover is the legal answer, as you note. But this is where legal theory and reality deviate. Are you really going to sue on this? Sure you’d likely win, but the cost to “win” outstrips the value of the original deal.
d
Something about that time frame doesn’t feel right either; 4 years feels a couple years too long.
I am glad you rec’d what you paid for though. EDIT a few min later: I just realized you posted about this upthread, I can’t really think that your story is a positive one, given that you stated you would never do business with them again.
I won’t do business with them again, but I was responding to a note that some wine shops take money for several years, and then renege. Sherry did not, they were just painfully slow.
small claims court.
The last things I bought from them was a couple of cases of ‘15 futures that were delivered in ‘19. Whenever I bought in-stock wines from them, a guy in a mini-van would show up at my house the next day with the wine.