I’m relatively new to ordering bottles at restaurants, but as I become more knowledgeable about wine and my own preferences and eagerness to learn, the less appealing pairings are. With that in mind, we’re dining at Alleno (Paris) in the near future. Three people. I’d like to order a bottle of Champagne, and then I couldn’t decide if two still wines was overkill, or do I just order either a white or red at that point? The restaurant won’t share their wine list ahead of time, but I might ask what older vintage Champagnes they offer, and then ask for suggestions based on the locality I want (likely Chablis if white and Volnay if red).
How do you deal with ordering multiple bottles? Any suggestions for specific wines at Alleno?
And then in Paris, I know 10% tip is pretty standard. If you’re ordering multiple higher end bottles, are you doing 10% on everything?
when ordering multiple bottes i always do this ahead of the food order so i can taste everything first but also to have some time to select alternatives if the wine list is not up to date. ordering additional bottles mid meal usually takes too much time to flag down the somm so i try to avoid it and have all the bottles i want open for the table for when the plates start arriving.
regarding tips, service is included in france so i am not sure how compelled you feel to add additional gratuity.
Most tasting menus are skewed towrads fish with one or maybe two meat courses. A full bottle of red is often not needed. Unless we learn differently concerning the menu, it would be a champagne, a white and a glass of red. That’s for the two of us. If you are three, that would probably still work if you are moderate drinkers.
This is a great point, and I want to avoid the awkwardness and poor timing of selecting bottles at the time of arrival (or during the meal), which is why I find it frustrating they won’t share the menu. Part of the reason I like looking at the menu is that, even in France, they inevitably have a combo of great-to-fantastically priced bottles to terribly priced bottles. And I’m price conscious enough that this point matters to me quite a bit (and I like to get good value at whatever price point I’m at.
I’d love to go with a Jacques Selosse Millesime or a Giraud Argonne if they have a bottle listed for not ungodly amounts. I’m a huge Champagne lover, but still haven’t tried vintage Selosse or vintage Giraud. Otherwise, I’ll likely look for a good '02 or something from the 90s.
I don’t feel compelled to add gratuity, maybe I’ll revise down my 10% expectation.
I’m just a big fan of the elegance and ethereal qualities I find in Volnay, and I love the florals you find in many Volnay wines. They tend to be on the lighter side, which I also find works well with food. I’m still building my knowledge of Burgundian villages, and I still find I can generally find great bottles I like from all of them (though I’ve found I very much dislike Savigny-Les-Beaune for whatever reason).
Why do you ask, do you find other appellations in Burgundy pair better with meals?
It depends on the actual list and what wines are available but I’d usually choose a grand cru, usually MG/rousseau.
I personally prefer to do champagne and red burg with all tasting menus; but I also don’t really prefer to drink still whites so there is some personal preference there.
It totally depends on the food, though I will say I find chablis less useful in the progression of a tasting menu when I have already begun with champagne. I usually want something with a little more richness, though it doesn’t have to be burgundy. Jura whites, dry Riesling, or even something a little off the wall like Borgo del Tiglio Colio, with a little age and the right menu can be pairing genius.
I am fairly old school about disliking red wine with all shellfish and most fin fish, and without knowing the menu, would never opt for red over white if I can have only one; but I know there are those chromatically challenged out there who feel a meal is not complete without a bottle of red.
I often also don’t choose grand cru red burgs in restaurants because they are way too young for me, in addition to being so expensive. I’d much rather have a 1er at peak.
Yeah I typically find that we can cruise with champagne through all the fish/shellfish courses and eventually there are inevitably some pasta/fowl/beef courses for the red and I love burgundy with most dessert fare (and obviously a cheese course). A lot of restaurants will offer glasses of champagne on arrival too.
Unless I’m in France I’ll usually bring the wines anyways so no worries about them not being ready. In France I’ll typically eat at places with deep lists of aged grand cru burgs for below us retail prices.
That’s a good point, I was actually leaning towards an alternative being a great aged Chenin Blanc from the Loire. But I’ll consider your suggestions. Thanks
Yes, this is what I’m banking on, the deep cellar. Unfortunately, because you can’t see the menus first it’s often hard to figure out the pricing ahead of time. Which GC Burgundy is your go to in terms of region or producer when dining in France? I’m having a hard time deciding if I want to spend more on better/older champagne or GC white/red Burgundy.
When I do a 3 three star meal I slightly deemphasize the wine and go with things that I really like that pair well with food like dry riesling and Beaujolais. I don’t want to fuss over the wine and wait for them to open and hope they pair well etc. To be clear I always go with wines I love. For me I would rather splurge on high end bottles in Paris where I can relax with the bottle and maybe have a snack where the wine is the focal point. That is just me…
This is a good take! I guess it’s balancing with the fact that hard to find bottles are sometime available at higher end restaurants in Paris for under retail. That would be my reasoning. But I see the point to focus on the cuisine.
There are a lot of places in Paris to buy splurge bottles where you don’t have to have a multi course 3 star meal. I had a lovely afternoon sipping on a bottle of Ramonet Montrachet and fries at Petit Sommelier.