Seeking Advice for Young WBs/Collectors

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Similar to this older thread: New Vino Collector Advice

Figured I could re-open broad-based discussion for fellow young wine enthusiasts such as myself.

Mainly, I am looking for advice as I continue to struggle with striking a meaningful balance between the following:
Collecting ageable wines and drinking a variety of wines (to better learn about the wines generally and understand my preferences).

Given my limited wine-related budget, I feel like some purchases (despite suspected long-term upside), feel like such a waste. For myself, I find I can spend ~$100 a month (sometimes–albeit rarely–3-400 when splurging).

Other threads that can be explored here:
a) when exploring wine ready to drink wine, typicity is likely key; but how does the young buyer know typicity for regions/varieties they have yet to explore (e.g., I have not had any chenin
 if I spend 20-30 on random a marc bredif vouvray and am disappointed is this my fault, do i not like chenin, or something else entirely)

b) Selecting appropriate age-able yet affordable wines – something similar to premier cru and village level burg seem appropriate, but should we just buy on release 1st growth for the most bang for our buck? (would appreciate advice on where to start/producers/cuvees for common varietals)

c) two of these, half a dozen of those – another conflict when purchasing
 (e.g., do I get 3x release Pontet Canet or do I get a half/full case of cheaper napa cab I’ve liked in the past).

d) Are wine mix-packs worth it to explore new varieties (e.g., I’ve had almost no portuguese reds, amex offers a discount on these bottles → https://www.laithwaites.com/product/M17659; am I “wasting” $200 to learn about low-quality wines)?

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Portugal is a good source for high quality wines at excellent prices in general, but you can also find great values from Italy and Spain.

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One way to attack the 1st is to buy a few mature wines. Back in the day, the auction scene, and especially mixed lots, could be a very good way to explore maturity, without the wait and tying money up in the cellar. Not sure how it is near you and in general these days, especially with the COVID induced big push online and resultant 25-30% buyer’s premiums

a) typicity is a somewhat nebulous term, but probably a rare instance where you might find decent agreement on these pages. There are often a good selection of benchmark typical producers for most regions. I’d say give Francois Pinon (though I think the forename changes recently to the son) as one I’ve enjoyed in that region.

b) this was something of a focus for me, and can need both a bit of digging in well-known regions, but also an open mind to trying stuff off the beaten track. There’s a real joy in finding a modestly priced wine that performs really well with a decade’s age on it, and they most definitely are out there to explore. Examples off the top of my head include Miru’s vespolina, Rutherglen estates durif, and a lovely crianza Rioja off a now closed restaurant wine list. I reckon this pursuit gave me a lot of pleasure, more so than chasing icons.

c) it sounds like your mind is wanting to explore, so do so. Singletons can be bought as a ‘taster’ for a winery, region or grape, and if it appeals lets your interest follow the leads that bottle opens up.

d) I’ve always bought the wines I want to buy (with to an extent those mixed auction lots requiring a degree of compromise). When buying a self-selected mixed dozen from a wine, I try to ensure that the majority are wines I like, or based on similar wines I’m likely to enjoy, but do leave space for 2-4 wines which are more of a jump out into the semi-unknown. Finding your own mix is for you to decide, but I’d definitely recommend making your own selections.

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At $100/month and having so many types you’ve not tasted, I’d defer trying to buy ageable wines for the future and just buy 4-5 $20-$25 bottles a month to explore as much as possible to learn what you like.

You are in a major metro so also look out for local tasting groups or good wine stores that offer in-store tastings or classes. Sometimes these are free but even if you spend $25 you’ve foregone one bottle purchased for the opportunity to try several wines.

Use notes rather than memory to keep track of what you tried and what you’ve liked. As you said, don’t be quick to write off/fall in love with an entire variety or region based on one bottle, but once you’ve had a few, either write it off (mostly anyway) or mark it for a deeper dive.

After a couple of years of that you should have a better idea what you like and what you don’t and maybe by then you’re in a position to devote some more $ to some ageable wines. But even if that doesn’t happen, doing the above will put you in a good spot to know which wines you like and you’ll be able to drink just fine on a few affordable/drink soon bottles every month.

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Wonderful reply, thank you for all the information! I have explored winebid (see: vintage wines I opened for my dad’s bday) for some drinkable wines (17% premium + their owned shipping co/cellaring fees); i have no experience or knowledge about local/in person auctions but will add that to my growing list of things to research.

a) noted

b) I have certainly had that joy already! Had a pinot tasting with my group and brought a 2020 single vineyard Laetitia which I got after reading about their cuvees here actually. After loving their estate bottling figured I’d bring something a little nicer from them and blew people away.

c) noted!

d) noted!

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Thanks for the reply!

I do have my own tasting group which meets about once per month (reason I’m cutting back on person wine spending to ~100). Previously, I was spending about 300/mo but wanted to make sure I could bring good wine to our tasting group and do some outings (like those you suggested).

I do attend a local wine shops tastings when they offer it.

I do mark most wines I have tried on CT (exceptions for early tasting group tastings and some of the paid tasting). Moving forward, I should keep a physical note to go back and write it up in CT later (for group tastings/public tastings–previously I just disliked being on my phone jotting notes).

It has only been about 2 years I’ve taken wine “seriously” and a little over a year of lurking here, having a CT, and a tasting group. So hopefully plenty of growth to come!

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John, sounds like you’re on the right track. My advice would be to keep searching out store tastings, any winemakers who visit the area and do tastings, keep doing tastings and dinners with friends. The more broadly you taste, meaning regions, varieties, vintages, etc., the more informed you’ll be about wine in general, and what your own preferences are.

What I would caution against (though it doesn’t sound like a problem, given your budget) is to avoid getting caught up in FOMO, buying wines you have no experience with just because you read something in a publication, review, or here (maybe unless it’s something a bunch of people rave about that costs $20 lol). Avoid buying wines that need to be put away and aged for along time, so that you end up with a cellar full of aging wines you’ve never even tried. Avoid going too deep on any particular region or producer. As much as you read “things are only getting more expensive and harder to find”, don’t fall into the trap of thinking you need to buy something now. 20 years from now, when you hopefully have more disposable income, there will be auctions, friends with wine, all of us boomers will be gone and our cellars liquidated :wink: There is always another wine. There are always auctions of older wines.

Last thought: no matter what you think you like now, it will be different 5 years from now, and different again 10 years from now. If you continue to follow and enjoy wine as a hobby, your tastes will change, your experience will grow, and you will want to drink things that are different from what you drink now.

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Thanks for the reply!

Definitely got the FOMO bug early into this hobby, particularly with burgundy; foruntately, budget largely prohibited and then I realized I didn’t need that in my life at this point.

Here’s hoping that the current career path picks up steam as anticipated and the disposable income is much more like 5-8 years timeline rather than 20 :stuck_out_tongue:

Do you have any “if I were 28yo again, I would buy this” wines currently? Does not have to be for me–hoping these comments can be used by other young buyers!

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You’re already ahead of me, I knew nothing about wine at 28. Was still in grad school, had no money, barely knew that Cab and Merlot are red wines, Chardonnay is white lol. Wasn’t until I moved up to the Bay Area to work, and started visiting Napa/Sonoma, that I began to have even a faint glimpse into the world of wine. Are there wines I wish I had known about and bought back then? Of course! Just like I wish I had bought Apple stock :wink:

Sure, there are a number of of wines I would have bought back then if I had the knowledge I have now. But I also think that today we have better access to a much larger number of quality wines across a broad range of styles and regions. When I was 28 there was essentially no internet, knowledge was transmitted by word of mouth and a small number of paper publications sent by snail mail. I guess in some ways that helped the true enthusiast, because they weren’t competing with everyone in a wide open market having access to all the info instantly. But it also meant you never heard about a lot of wines that weren’t getting written about.

It’s amusing to look back on how things were 40 or 50 years ago, but in the end you live in the age you live in, and learn to thrive :wine_glass:

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If that’s the goal
 stop buying and drinking individual bottles. Host or join offlines, and participate in events.

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I found with a little experience/practice, I was able to scribble down key elements on paper, that I could easily pull together into a fuller tasting note. Maybe 10-12 words on paper, became 30-40 in tasting note form. The extra words often to give it a better flow, but also to add emphasis, and anything the notes prompted me into recalling.

At big walk round tastings I’d write less words but still would find these extend out in similar proportions, so 5 words scribbled, might end up at a 15-20 word abbreviated tasting note. I never quite trusted my palate in such situations, hence I aimed for less detail.

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You’re doing great. Got your own tasting group, seeking out local tastings, avoiding the burgundy FOMO, using CT for notes, on here chatting with others and sharing your experiences. And the suggestions people have been making on this thread have been excellent.

I got bitten by the wine bug hard when I was very young (19) and the idea of having $100/month to spend on wine was a distant dream. 18 years later, I am grateful that I found it so early because by the time I was in a position to buy any wine at all to age for more than a few years, I was over a decade into my wine journey and had a strong idea of what I was interested in. As a result I have had almost no buyer’s remorse and am very happy with the small collection I have. This is your greatest asset right now, especially in the current market - you do not need to be buying wine to age. The wine market is declining, so most wines you might buy on release now to age will be available for the same price, or in many cases less, in 5 years’ time. At that point, you can pick them up if you want and carry them to maturity yourself. I’ll give you a quick example - in 2009 I was maybe a year into my wine journey and I tasted 2003 La Tour Blanche. I loved it and saw that I could buy a case for about $540. At the time that was an insane amount of money for me but I really considered it. In the end I didn’t buy it, and good thing too because now, 16 years later, I can get half bottles of the 2001 (which is even better than the 2003) for $30/half bottle at auction. Not to mention that I’ve tasted more broadly since and found other chateaux I like better, so can make better buying decisions now and not regret having a case of 750 mL bottles of a good but not incredible Sauternes that I would have had to move around and store all these years.

You may also find that you have a taste for younger wine. Not everyone likes very mature wine, and there’s a lot of heartbreak in it even for those who do. For example, much of the time I like my Bordeaux best at 10-25 (but rarely older), my Syrah around 15, my Riesling at all ages, and my Chardonnay young. Mature white burgundy sends others to heaven but not me. So it goes.

Especially given your budget, I would recommend drinking very widely and not worrying too much about depth. Once you’ve had a Furmint that tastes like Chardonnay, a steel-aged Carricante that tastes like oak, and an Australian Arinto with a perfume that drives you mad, you’ll never stop second guessing yourself when tasting blind, and your sense of wonder, excitement, and humility will be well fed. You’ll also be a better taster than if you’d spent all your time drinking Burgundy and Bordeaux, because you’ll know what’s possible. When you find a few regions, varieties, or styles that speak to you consistently over time, drill down into those. But if you don’t find yourself caring much about Pinot Noir, then it doesn’t matter much if you can tell New Zealand from South Africa, Bonnes-Mares from Musigny. If you hang out with wine fanatics, it’s kind of nice to have a niche or two anyway, and many people are more excited for you to bring something interesting (which may be inexpensive) than something expensive that everyone already knows.

If you like to read, I think that books can be a great early resource to help contextualize what you’re learning and tasting. The World Atlas of Wine and the Oxford Companion to Wine are, to me, the two essentials, and they’ll serve you well for years to come, but there are many other excellent books and endless recommendations here on WB.

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Lovely advice, honestly! I appreciate the attention to detail and for actually reading what I (and others) have written here.

Pretty insane that you mention it, but I actually just opened a wonderful $19.99 2020 Furmint that was extraordinary. Had my GF try it (who likes wine but is not a hobbyist) and she said, this is super interesting chardonnay when I asked her to call it. I asked her how much would she want me to pay for a bottle of it, and she said up to $35. Very happy purchase/discovery from my local Ukranian grocery store (we went to go buy bread and hazelnut spread but of course I looked at the wines).

I do own the World atlas of wine and have perused the relevant sections for different themed tasting my group has down (spanish reds/italian whites/bordeaux blends) but haven’t gone through it at length. Looking forward to continuing to read, learn and share here! This is a good group :slight_smile:

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Echo’ing others. You’re in a great spot. Tasting group, tastings when convenient.

I’d prioritize more affordable regions that have great qpr and use them to zone in what you love. Gives you more reps. Make sure to hit all over the maturity curve to narrow in on what you like there.

Places you can get tier A juice for $40 or less:
Basque white
priorate red
cava bubbles
southern Spain is treasure trove - sherry and the unfortified whites now
Spanish grenache not named Commando G
Portugal
Languedoc Rous
beajuolais - skip past the hot
Aslace - red white and sparkling
Germany - so much great wine
Loire
FLX - whites
Oregon - especially off grapes italian or aromatic varieites
Central Cali
+2 for Dry Furmint

I really don’t think price matters in the discovery phase. If you blinded a line up with 1 $100 wine and 3 excellently chosen $35 dollar wines you’d consistently pick the $100 as your favorite.

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Thanks for the suggestions!

I do know I like many of those mentioned: Txakoli, Albarino, Priorat reds (rival good bordeaux imo).

Still looking to try the dry/unfortified fino sherry as well as portugal and Italian varietals that arent nebbiolo/sangiovese!

Funnily enough, our next tasting we are doing sparkling and all pooled for 1 nice bottle (Egley Ouriet), then bringing 30-50$ bottles to “try and beat it blind”. I’m bringing 2022 Schramsberg Blanc de Noirs Brut and we’ll see how it fairs lol

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It’s becoming a lot more common. Idk about Ohio though. My favorite recently: Nevado, Buelan | Astor Wines & Spirits

@Joseph_Grassa can help with that. He’s probably posted it already somewhere.

Nice. Even their entries, Les Prémices for example, can be great with a little cellar time.

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Italian varieties that aren’t the big two -

Aglianico from Campania and elsewhere
Nero d’Avola from Sicily
Reds from Valpolicella

Too many white varieties to list but certainly

Timorasso from Piemonte
Fiano, Greco di Tufo, and Falanghina from Campania
Soave (that’s the region, not the variety)

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Always exciting to see such open mindedness.

My first piece of advice is related to your initial question a).

Sustain humility. You don’t know, and you will always be learning. Without having prior experience with a wine, you won’t really know how well it showed itself. I think the key is always having the opinion “I did not like that wine that night” rather than “I don’t like wines of that grape, region or winery” The little we learn from a single bottle is only a useful guideline to help us get to the next thing we will learn. One of my favorite pass-times is helping someone realize that they actually don’t hate Chianti or Cabernet Sauvignon, but just the wines they have had.

The list of Italian varieties besides Sangiovese and Nebbiolo is near endless and can be overwhelming. Here is a very short list of some grapes that are worth trying sooner than later imo.

Reds
Aglianico - very tannic, very cellar worthy, great with steaks, but some can be made in a fresher style.

Nero d’Avola - really try Gulfi’s wines. All of them are excellent. nerojbleo is a great entry point. I’ve done a class on Nero d’Avola and terroir, using only there wines.

Nerello Mascalese - lighter, vibrant, often red fruited

Corvina & Friends (Corvinone, Rondinella, Oseleta, Molinara) - Seek out Amarone della Valpolicella, but be cautious of values here. These wines are not meant to be cheap. Also try Valpolicella. Valpolicella are fresh versions of wines made from those grapes, while Amarone are big and brooding with RS.

Schioppettino - sometimes burgundy like. light, but with black & white pepper notes.

Ciliegiolo - not easy to find, but this is one of the most underrated red grapes in Italy. try Sassotondo or Torre alle Tolfe.

Barbera - high acid and great pizza wine, espescially Barbera d’Asti. Barbera d’Alba tends to be bigger and darker.

Montepulciano - try Tiberio and Torre dei Beati. Or for a more modern style Contesa.

Negroamaro - very underappreciated. Try Cosimo Taurino Salice Salentino (usually 90% negroamaro) or Notopanaro (100%)

Whites I am a bit rushed so here are just some names of grapes/ wine types

Timorasso

Catarratto

Fiano di Avellino

Erbaluce di Caluso

Trebbiano Abruzzese (wines ar elabeled Trebbiano d’Abruzzo)

Falanghina

Carricante

Vernaccia di San Gimignano

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I would personally steer clear of Laithwaites. They are aiming at a price so low that typicity is rarely hit. I would help more directly, but I sadly can’t ship to OH. Look for a local store with some knowledge, but always take everything with a grain of salt.

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Yes, although Laithwaites do also sell some decent wines, they are an earlier example of the Naked wines style, of mostly mass market wines, marketed as something better than they are.

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