S. cerevisiae is the yeast responsible for wine and beer fermentation, but also for bread fermentation. Any issues with bread?
No issues with bread, although I have non-celiac gluten tolerance / igg response. The issue here is very different, it is like an immediate dermatological reaction as if you are drinking fire / immediate body ache.
You don’t have trouble with stinging insect reactions do you? There are cases of wine allergic reactions happening because of the wasps/yellow jackets/hornets that get crushed in the wine press…
As a child I did, reaction to bee stings. Haven’t been stung by a bee since then as I’m now an urban jungle fellow… get stung by the cost of gluten free pizza now.
That wouldn’t explain white vs red though.
I really appreciate these ideas. Many are things I have not previously thought of.
Anyone have a cheap mass spectrometer? I could put together a dozen wines i react to and a dozen I don’t. And some pattern may pop up. And we can drink the wines. i was quoted by a doctor though it would be $10k a sample but he didn’t know.
Ok, how about sorbic acid?
My follow up q is: what about avocados and bananas?
I don’t have this reaction to anything else. I can drink vodka fine. Avocados and bananas fine. Some fruits can give me a mild itchy sensation under my chin, but nothing like drinking fire/getting body ache/or a tooth ache.
I don’t know about sorbic acid specifically. But no issues with pickles, syrups, olives etc. like this.
Before tossing out all that cash, have a friend put together a group of wines you react to and wines you don’t, then do a blind tasting and see what happens.
Can you tell us the precise sequence of symptoms you have when you drink an offending wine?
Are you reacting to certain wines 100% of the time?
Ok, last one. Although illegal in most countries it is still commonly practiced… silver nitrate?
In the throat its an immediate burning sensation. Can’t even get it down. To the extents a midly burning sensation I can try to force it down. Thereafter comes what must be a blood-borne response: throbbing muscle pain (whole body, but mainly the back) and if particularly bad in the teeth (from within, like a throbbing sensation). Rapidly peaks and and then fades, and goes away after 20-30 minutes entirely.
The study of the US fellow who traveled to UK is very similar to me. Although I don’t respond to all alcohols that way like he does. Eg I can have vodka and look forward to some reds I have lined up.
Great question. I haven’t done a good job here of recording every wine/cider and going for seconds. I do suspect there was some variance in Angry Orchard ciders for creating the reaction versus not (sample set of 2). I have started to record offending wines, but largely eliminated the whites to success, and then the 2001 Riuessec hit me. I have more of the 2001s (such a good wine and I have hope I can drink it in 20 years), I should open one again. But I should buy it from a different retailer I think to have a different lot/batch (is that a thing, or would any other wine of the vintage suffice)?
Such an interesting thread - and one that is certainly thought provoking.
It would be most helpful to understand the specific wines that affect you - you mentioned the one red, but which specific whites? I also like the idea of trying them blind to see.
One last thing to try - and this may sound strange - but have someone take one or two of the whites that you react negatively to and put red food coloring in them to make them appear like a ‘red wine’ and see if the same reactions occur.
A lot of great points made by many here - but one comment about SC and white wines to consider that others haven’t (and I personally don’t think it’s them but . . .) - the attributes of the yeast (whether filtered or not) will be more ‘prominent’ in most white wines versus reds since whites don’t seem to see as much time in barrel . . .
Cheers.
Not meant to be a complete answer, but also review burning mouth syndrome, which can have a wild course…Burning mouth syndrome - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic
That doesn’t fit all your issues, but you also mentioned some sort of autoimmune issue, which may magnify things.
- I should have put together a list prior to posting. I have a long list of wines that haven’t impacted me, however. Will need to spend some time to put together the list of wines that did impact me.
- I guarantee this is not a blind vs. blind mental thing. It’s not a question of nuance etc. It’s a fire in your esophagus or not!
- That’s interesting on the yeast! Perhaps there is a correlation for the wines I have allergies to how they are made, steel vs. barrel and length of time in barrel
It could as complex as whether or not you had been eating, what you ate, fat content in the food…a zillion things.
If it’s esophageal pain…have you been checked for GERD, esophagitis, etc?
It’s in the wine Anton. Although I don’t want to minimize other variables… there is something specific in whites/ciders wines that crushes me and is unique to those wines.
I do have eosinophilic esophagitis. But that doesn’t play for the reds I’ve had. And I’ve done many many tests. Doctors don’t even believe in this reaction to wine and the 2017 study I posted was the only datapoint I’ve found for something similar (which the doctor noted as well). Unfortunately this doctor is in Spain when I will be in the UK.
AFA Serenade it was during grape sampling. It was pretty severe and scary, kind of like anaphylaxis. I thought I may have ruined the wine for me to drink but I don’t seem to have a reaction to the wine as I tried a bottle last night without problem, it was delicious.
There are many different amines that could cause problems. Putracine, Cadavarine, lots of Tyramine in bananas and cheese. It would surprise me if they larger European wines since I believe there is a low amine requirement that we have no law for here other than for export to EU.
Looking closer at the symptoms, they don’t look like amine problems per se. I know that tannins can cause temporomandibular pain because of the saliva glands going nuts. I’ve also had some anecdotal evidence that high, late acid adds can cause somewhat similar effects.
Add another wild datapoint. I had a Russian River Zinfandel about 3 months ago that I reacted to. Was a wine trade in the tasting room. It was a AVA bottling, tasting both green and overripe at the same time making me think it was possibly a recovery effort. I only had wine so it surely was the wine but after the first glass I broke out in hives from my knees to my neck. I’ve never had hives and have not had them since and I’ve had a lot of wine. Was inside the whole day so that eliminated bug bites etc.
If you have EoE that might be what is causing your trouble. Sulfites usually don’t cause IgE mediated reactions so I don’t think that’s the case. There are allergens in grapes that are also found in grass pollen and sometimes these will cause trouble but usually not in wine. Maybe you should use flovent consistently for at least a few months if you’re not already?
Even without a verified test, the plan of action would be the same…avoidance. I can see where having a specific answer would be comforting, but your drink/not drink list would remain idiosyncratic and arbitray - there’s no solid way to predict your tolerance in a situation with wine you haven’t encountered.
The tests mentioned in the article could easily be done in your home town, most likely!
Has your eosinophilic esophagitis ever been treated?
The world can be so capricious! Dang!
Side note: do you take antacids?