RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

the moment in Sour Grapes when they compare one of the Lalas ? from the 80s IIRC? was really telling

I’m sure if you’ve had the genuine article, his wines are a million miles away from what they should be. But for the person who paid for the wine, you taste what you want to taste. And its probably true that his frauds are closer thna many other frauds.

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Maybe he’d participate in Berserker Day 15 if you invited him. :thinking:

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At the one dinner I attended with Rudy , he ordered a bottle of the then current LaLa off the Campanile wine list for the group. I bet he took the bottle home.

Years ago, a group of us went to Montrachet in Manhattan. The guest of honor was a bottle of 1900 Taylor Port. It showed brilliantly, and I was asked by the somm would I mind if a special client of theirs had a small taste. I agreed, it turned out to be Rudy, who gifted us a glass of something Burgundian decent but not memorable. When a friend wanted to take my bottle home, it turned out that Rudy had apparently run off with it.

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I suspect he was good until he realised that he could get away with absolutely anything and got lazy.
It could be that 90 RC isn’t actually that good now, it’s a disappointing vintage after the massive hype.

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Wasn’t meaning ONLY that one - if he is so good at making counterfeit wines (that can trick ‘experts’) he could create a series of wines and sell them legitimately for probably decent money. Recreate 1989 Chave Hermitage for $80, etc

The wine he procures to produce it will cost more than $80.

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I seem to remember from the court proceedings that 1940s Romanee Conti was a combination of Patriarch 1970 and Marcassin Blue Ridge 2006.

My tasting group tried playing around with the two wines, but despite trying a few combinations, we could not close to anything that tasted like an old Burgundy. The grapy quality of the Marcassin created a slightly odd note in the finished wines. We concluded that much as we hated saying so, we should stick with our day jobs, as we just did not have Rudy’s know how .

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Seems like some winery/group would pick him up to make blends for them if he really is that good at this thing. Probably best to not tell anyone he is a “consultant”.

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Not in the league with inviting Hannibal Lecter to share some fava beans and chianti, but . . .

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How about leaving the Marcassin open for 10 days first?
Which Patriarche wine was it?

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Plenty of people in Hong Kong, Singapore and Indonesia (the places he’s frequenting) not only want to drink with Rudy but also want to taste his fakes.

Not sure why. But it’s definitely a thing.

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I can kind of see the appeal

On one perspective, if you dont have loads of money to just be dropping on 89 Petrus all day every day, having someone, who by all accounts has a very strong palate,'s interpretation of the wine would be interesting.

On the other hand, it’d be quite fun to do a blind tasting or a side-by-side comparison, legit vs fake, and form your own opinions.

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The problem is deeper an more prevalent than what meets the eye. What everyone knows but often “forgets” is, that it’s not only “concoctions” but also cheap off vintages, “turned” into top vintages - the MAJORITY churned out each year by the “industry” are considered off vintages for collectors! It’s FRAUD too but such bottles can hold the real deal fm an off vintage for example. Who can really tell with absolute certainty blind, say a 86 from a 88 HB? With plenty of wine in the system, after a crap load of vintages over a 5 course dinner, a 88 HB might even pass for an 89! Nah, that could not happen to any of the big wigs here, eh? Y’all are too f’in top notch tasters :crazy_face:

It’s not only RK but what about the Dehns and many more?
I too was fooled at at least one event. A “famous” critic wrote glowing tn’s just thereafter that were posted on eRP. Once it was formally established, that we were fooled, those TN were taken down imediately.
Too many frauds and otherwise phony folks ITB - UNFORTUNATELY, that perpetuate the scam on various levels.
Wine collecting IS and always has been a multi-generational endeavor but too many dorks moving from the “bronx to the uper east side in one generation. They got to have the trophies to go with it” fueled by fiat dough and exibited in their obnoxious wine walls :slightly_smiling_face:

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I don’t think Rudy’s success was about a particular genius for flawlessly recreating old wines. It was more that very old wines are so variable and so rare that almost no one can truly say with confidence what they “should” taste like. But many have incentives to pretend they can, which makes them easy to fool.

Emperor has no clothes moment…

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This right here, exactly.

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Some people will believe what they wish was or is true.

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and if it tastes kinda off, easy to just say “probably a bad bottle/cork”

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The thing that struck me is that all his bottles were reported to be fantastic. That should have been a tipoff. I never once read an account of a tasting where a bottle of his was so-so or flawed.

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But isn’t that the case with MOST wines these days? Finding ‘excuses’ if they don’t live up to expectations?

Cheers

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