Ruby Cabernet?

WINE TALK
1

Always interested in underdogs: This has on paper the genetics and the makings of being a good hybrid. Yet, you don’t see or hear about it much and if you do, it seems to be mainly as a blend variety. I know Cardella makes a single varietal one and there might be a few others. Anyone tried any good ones or have any experiences with it?

2

Yup, Adam. They used to have RC planted at DickersonVnyd in NapaVlly and made one (maybe made by Joel Peterson) that was pretty good, under the DickersonVnyd label. And I have a vague recollection that Ridge made one back in the '70’s. It can make good wine in the right hands, but not gonna set the World on Fire.
Tom

3

And, Adam… if you recall, back in the '60’s, Zinfandel was regarded as an underdog grape suited only for blending into Calif Burgundy wine.
Tom

4

Interesting that there’s more Ruby Cab planted in California than grenache, malbec, cab franc, and mourvedre.

I ran across this variety awhile back when I was looking at Olmo who created it. It was suppose to be a cabernet that could survive the heat in the San Joquin valley because it’s crossed with Carignan. I’m guessing most of it is planted in JV and then blended into something red from Gallo.

here’s some Cellartracker data for Ruby Cab single variety which you’ll need to weed through the noise

Pine Ridge Vineyards 25.4% Bottles (100)
Ridge 12.4% Bottles (49)
Simon Creek Vineyards 9.9% Bottles (39)
Fattoria Cardella 9.4% Bottles (37)
Dickerson Vineyard 5.8% Bottles (23)
Arcus Norge 4.3% Bottles (17)
Estabrooks 2.8% Bottles (11)
Ferdinand Pieroth 2.3% Bottles (9)
Page Springs Cellars 1.8% Bottles (7)
Cap*Rock 1.8% Bottles (7)
Sequoia Mountain 1.3% Bottles (5)
Fenestra 1.3% Bottles (5)
Cimarosa 1.3% Bottles (5)
Lynfred Winery 1.0% Bottles (4)
Mondo Cellars 1.0% Bottles (4)
J.C. Meier 1.0% Bottles (4)
Ficklin Vineyards 1.0% Bottles (4)
Sunset Canyon 1.0% Bottles (4)
Bell Springs Winery 1.0% Bottles (4)
Arrow 1.0% Bottles (4)
Woodrose Winery 1.0% Bottles (4)
Cardella Winery 0.8% Bottles (3)
Dessert Rose 0.5% Bottles (2)
Chateau Elan 0.5% Bottles (2)
Cedar Wood 0.5% Bottles (2)
Sea Ridge 0.5% Bottles (2)
Salerno 0.5% Bottles (2)

5

Thanks - yes, and Olmo also did the Rubired crossing, which I think is another widely grown one that goes into mystery blends. That hybrid has Grenache in it, too.

Tom - in many was Zin is still an underdog! [cry.gif]

6

Pax, along with Patrick Cappiello, is now making a rubired under his monte rio cellars label.

7

You should ask Aron Weinkauf at Spottswoode, he was considering painting a few vines in a new block they acquired and want to plant with heritage varieties. Lest there be any misunderstanding, this is just an experiment and has nothing to do with the existing Spottswoode Cabernet bottlings, which do not contain any Ruby Cabernet.

8

Back in the 70s a co op in Lodi sold Ruby Cab and Emerald Riesling under the Royal Host label…both were good and attractively priced but never big sellers. Some of the bottlings of Ruby Cab were sensational.

When I was selling wine in the UK I visited them–must be around 1988–and they weren t doing this then.All the wines were quite sweet, as I recall.

Obviously the grapes are being used for something.

9

There was a fair amount of Ruby Cab in the 60s and early seventies. No recollection of anything mind bending.

I want Green Hungarian

10

Strange you should ask for GH, David. Matt Rorick got RogerKing to plant it for him in the SuisunVlly, from cuttings taken from the LibraryVnyd Turley uses. He never got a wine he was happy with and blended it all away. Think he’s lost interest in the project. Don’t know if Roger still has it planted.
For extra credit, David, sing for us the jingle FredWeibel used to push his GH.
Your best/last hope for GH is to get Morgan T-P interested in the variety.
Tom

11

Ridge inherited some up on Montebello, and made it from '68-'84. I’ve had the majority of those. At their best, they approach Monte Bello in quality, but the majority became sort of mushy and weird. (Hmm… I allegedly still have a '70.)

There was a producer in the '90s that made one red and one white, only in 1.5 liter bottles, carried at Mollie Stone’s Market as a value wine. The red was 100% Ruby Cab, and was a great daily drinker. Soft tannin, juicy, good enough complexity.

Popped a '60s era Almaden last year that was enjoyable enough, and have had various young ones over the years. I think its strength is to make good daily drinker wines. It can do well at better sites, but not as well as alternatives.

12

We drank a 1978 Ridge Ruby Cab at a tasting about 2 years ago. It was in a flight with a couple of early 80s Ridge Santa Cruz Mtn Cabernet Sauvignons and it surprised all of us trying it. Nothing mushy or weird about the bottle we opened. None of us would have guessed it was 40 years old as it was medium-to-full bodied and still offered up some good fruit flavors. If anything, it showed pretty primary with little secondary or tertiary development evident.

13

I m not sure that the Royal Host was mind bending but at $1.98 a bottle before discount…not so bad.

14

Green Hungarian was my father’s favorite wine. We had it every thanksgiving, because it was “good and sour!”

And I remember selling quite a bit of Inglenook and Almaden Ruby Cabernet back in the day. All I remember was, it was soft and easy to drink.

15

I have a book, “The Fine Wines of California” by Hannum and Blumberg, published in 1971. It’s a pretty good snapshot of California wine producers in the mid to late 60’s. Regarding Ruby Cabernet, they say “while nowhere near the creatness of Cabernet Sauvignon [it[ can be a light, fruity, pleasant red wine that is a good sight better than most Carignanes. One word of warning to the consumer, however. Some wineryies are labeling wine produced from the Ruby Cabernet grape as simply Cabernet. To the unwwary this may be confused with wine made from Cabernet Sauvignon…”

They see fit to mention three producers of Ruby Cabernet: San Martin, Davis Bynum, and Gemello, with the last being guilty of the aforementioned labeling sin.

16

Rubired is a hybrid with Vitis Rupetris in its parentage. It is one of those rare black grapes with red juice and is condensed and sold to wineries under the brand name Mega Purple to add colour to their wines as many consumers want a dark rather than pale wine.

Ruby Cabernet is the result of cross pollination - like every other vinifera - of two varieties, in this case Carignan and Cabernet Sauvignon. Only difference to most is that the pollination was done by man.

My 1980 Pocket Encyclopedia of California wine by Bob Thompson says: Nearly all of 18,860 acres are in San Joaquin Valley. As a varietal, best made in the classic fashion - dry, with time in wood. Though does not require aging in bottle, it will hold up for a decade when made well.

(Later edit) A winemaker told me that Ruby Cabernet is resistant to wind damage so he grows a small amount on an exposed part of the property which is too windy for the other varieties they grow. He vinifies the Ruby C separately and uses it to top up barrels of his (otherwise varietal) Cabernet Sauvignon and Bordeaux Blend.

17

Now there’s 4,300 acres for ruby cab

But there are 11,500 acres of rubired planted… [stirthepothal.gif]

if you’re making bulk red wine without much skin contact you’ll need to color it.

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mmarcellus
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Re: Ruby Cabernet?
#15 Unread post by mmarcellus » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:50 pm

I have a book, “The Fine Wines of California” by Hannum and Blumberg, published in 1971. It’s a pretty good snapshot of California wine producers in the mid to late 60’s. Regarding Ruby Cabernet, they say “while nowhere near the creatness of Cabernet Sauvignon [it[ can be a light, fruity, pleasant red wine that is a good sight better than most Carignanes. One word of warning to the consumer, however. Some wineryies are labeling wine produced from the Ruby Cabernet grape as simply Cabernet. To the unwwary this may be confused with wine made from Cabernet Sauvignon…”

They see fit to mention three producers of Ruby Cabernet: San Martin, Davis Bynum, and Gemello, with the last being guilty of the aforementioned labeling sin.

Bob Blumberg went on to become a cardiologist. Hannum taught law at Tufts and wrote the Constitution of Guam or some other Pacific island. They must have been all of 25 or 26 when the book came out. Bob is still active in Medical Friends of Wine.

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great post, Brib [cheers.gif]

20

I seem to recall it was in the silver ink on glass bottle Dickerson bottle. Wasn’t he killed in the 2004 Tsunami? Back in the 90s I was looking for alternative dry reds to sell and went through a couple cases, simply on the reputation of the producer.