They seem to have really good prices but I cant get anyone on the phone.
Anybody have experience with them?
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I’ve been curious about this too. Consistently lowest US prices on winesearcher but haven’t heard of them and their web site is weird too – claim to be some kind of investment fund.
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link for the curious.
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There is also “cultwine” no S
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I actually started an account with them 2 years ago for the purpose of getting into burgundy with the 2019 vintage as both a collector and investor. They emphasize the investment strategy of their business model and take I believe it is a 2% cut of your portfolio each year. I found their Burgundy en primeur to be exceptional in 2019, more limited in 2020 (of course who wasn’t). I started with CW before they made the push into NYC and the US. Previously based in London, wines are held in bond in either France or London, sometimes Hong Kong. They track your holdings against LiveX. Most times their pricing is very competitive. I have never taken delivery of any wine from them to this point. Regarding Burgundy, they have a tight relationship with O Bernstein and generally have a substantial trove of his wines to sell en primeur. I don’t purchase Bordeaux so can’t speak to how they perform on that sector. They most certainly are geared towards the wine investor for clientele. My personal advisor has a big passion for wine but she is mostly trained in the financial markets having worked for big investment houses in NYC in the recent past. One could say without a doubt it is a bit of a leap of faith to have a substantial account with them (6 figures) and have never laid eyes on any of the wines I own, but having been in business since 2007? I figured if this was some sort of ponzi scheme someone would have discovered the truth by now. All the associates I’ve worked with at CW have been terrific. I’m happy to refer you to my consultant if you like. She is big into Rhone and Bordeaux and she is readily available anytime I’m eager to snag a case of a hot wine that just became available.
Hope that helps some.
Ardeis
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But the question is, are they reliable to buy from? Has anyone purchased from them? How come their prices are consistently significantly lower than others on WS?
Article in Wine Spectator describes them as a “wine investment fund,” not a retailer:
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I have not personally used them but I have a close friend that has used them in London for very large purchases (6 figures).
Sorry but there is something fishy about these guys. They are offering prices like 20% below winesearcher lows for a large range of recent Bordeaux that should be priced almost like commodities. I can see stores offering a very low price for the occasional wine they get lucky on but not like this. I suspect some kind of bait and switch.
I notice no one is chiming in to say they placed an order, paid the listed price, got the wine, and drank the wine.
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I think this might be a reason as to why prices seem so low compared to US.
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I know Tom Gearing (CEO) very well. This is a very legitimate business with a long track record. They are much more about wine investment than being a pure retailer.
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Well, they are engaged in deceptive advertising if they are putting up winesearcher prices for U.S retail customers that are (it sounds like) 30%+ lower than the actual delivered prices to the consumer, based on UK tax and transatlantic shipping. I know WS doesn’t typically include tax and shipping but this takes it to extremes
My guess if that if you contact them wanting to buy they tell you it’s going to be much more expensive to get it to you, but try to pitch you on being an investment client and buying wines to hold with them in the UK
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Sounds like bitcoins.
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Wow, maybe just settle down a bit? Those are some strong words you are chucking around. Maybe you should actually get in contact with them successfully before you slag them so much?
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To be clear, the point of keeping the wines in bond is not to pay UK VAT if they’re not sold into the US. So there would be no UK taxes/duties on these.
Shipping and US taxes aren’t that high if you import in bulk, so the above post just reflects a misunderstanding of “in bond” and what the actual price is.
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Your guess is wrong and I suggest you stop wildly speculating without the underlying information. I can’t speak to their success or returns, and I’m not a client, but they’re a business that provides their clients liquidity when they sell wines.
If you’re going to complain about deceptive advertising (which this definitely isn’t) and UK tax you should probably know how UK tax works.
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Normally in these “retailer check” threads we get people popping up to say “yeah, I ordered from these guys, the quoted price was accurate, I got my wine, it was in good condition, they are legit”. Here we are getting people showing up and saying “the owners are my personal friends, how DARE you suggest that it might be a little deceptive to list in-bond prices for wines held in London as available U.S. retail prices on Winesearcher!” Kind of different.
Their web site does not allow you to directly order retail wines or see the all-in price for wines delivered to your door, instead they ask you to contact their salespeople personally if you want to order anything (hence my inference that this might involve a pitch for the wider investment program). Anyone with the time to do that can let us know what the all-in price is.
I don’t even question the investment plan, if you’re a wine investor having someone hold cases in-bond in London as opposed to buying and holding it yourself makes a lot of sense. Might have saved me money. Nor do I question the idea of buying wine in London to ship to the US if you can afford it and the price makes sense. I’m just saying listing it on WS as the U.S. retail low is not accurate.
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I think you mean to say that UK VAT would not be due if the wines are exported directly to the US, hence the only cost is shipping and U.S. taxes.
Every time I have looked at ordering wines from London (this would always be a case or less), the price delivered to the U.S. has not been competitive with U.S. retail prices even if the list price in London was lower (as it typically is). I suspect you’re right that if you got enough wines together and shipped in bulk it could offer savings. Their business model could make a lot of sense for U.S. collectors who plan to accumulate wines in bulk and age them for decades, would have been interesting if it had been around when I started collecting.
How worthwhile it’d be would depend on how long you hold the wines for. Long term, the management fees can slowly chip away any savings arbitrage
We should re-label the original post I believe. It should read, Wine Investment Funds Check; Cult Wines US in NY.
Personally I hate the idea of these funds. Socking away lovely bottles that may never be consumed as they were intended to be by humans. Just another hustle to make money. Honestly are there not enough other bright shiny things to buy and hold in order to make a profit? Like bitcoins? Like NFTs? Old fashioned stocks? The bite of 2% per year should give investors pause as the likelihood of double digit gains year over year in the future on things like DRC seem unlikely. What…is a bottle of DRC 2020 going to sell for $25,000.00 and be expected to go up 5% yearly? I wonder how long the madness goes on before the music stops…
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