Red Burgundy Producers With Vineyard Holdings Planted Prior to WWII

WINE TALK
1

I’ve just recently rekindled an interest in wine and have begun searching out 2009 Burgundies to add to my cellar. It’s been over 10 years since I last actively sought out wines (Burgundies in particular) to purchase. While doing some research, I came across this article on Clive Coates website. I placed in bold italic font, that part of the article that resonated with me:

‘So you think Today’s Burgundies are Brilliant?’

Burgundy has not had a bad vintage since 1984. It is as if Le Bon Dieu is smiling on the region and rewarding the growers for their dedication and individualism, their refusal to submit to uniformity and indulge in petty jealousies, and their reasonableness with prices. The standard of the wines, and the very large number of praiseworthy domaines and merchants is far higher than it has ever, ever been in the past. Yet things can only get better – much better. While everyone is well equipped in their cellars – sorting tables, temperature control, attention to the minute details of élevage, and so on, is as exigent about dispensing with herbicides and systematic sprays, and is, indeed, as biological is not bio-dynamic as one would wish, the raw material, the vines themselves, leave much to be desired.

Todays ‘old vines’ are no longer, for the most part, those planted in the 1900s, the 1910s and the 1920s, i.e. the first generation of grafted vines planted after the vignes francaises died out. Sadly these are now rare indeed. They are more likely to be the infamous Pinots Droits planted in the 1960s or the first generation of clones, reared for quantity as much for disease resistance. Neither, of themselves, produce fine quality. Nor, for the most part, were the rootstocks they were grafted on to, for instance the SO4, the most desirable. A vine on SO4 tends to race to maturity as September evolves, rendering the window of perfect opportunity very narrow indeed.


I put together a list of the different domaines that produce wines from Premier Cru and Grand Cru vineyards that were planted prior to 1939. Unfortunately, the only books I have on the subject are about 15 years old now. I used Remington Norman’s The Great Domaines Of Burgundy second edition as my primary source. Clive Coates’ Cote D’or also came in handy. I would imagine the list I came up with has probably changed, somewhat, in the last fifteen years due to the sale of vineyards, French inheritance laws, replanting, etc… However, I thought this list might come in handy as a starting point for others who are interested in the subject. If you know of any additions or deletions that are relevant, please feel free to alter the list as necessary.


RED BURGUNDY PRODUCERS WITH VINEYARD HOLDINGS PLANTED PRIOR TO WWII


1er Cru:

Domaine - Commune - Vineyard
Bruno Clair - Savigny - La Dominode
Denis Bachelet - Gevrey - Les Corbeaux
Charles Mortet - Gevrey - Les Champeaux
Dujac - Chambolle - Les Gruenchers
Perrot-Minot - Chambolle - La Combe d’Orvaux
Hudelot-Noellat - Vosne - Les Suchots
Grivot - Vosne - Les Reignots
Grivot - Nuits - Les Boudots
Lamarche - Vosne - Les Malconsorts
Meo-Camuzet - Vosne - Les Brulees
Robert Chevillon - Nuits - Les Cailles
Robert Chevillon - Nuits - Les Vaucrains
Robert Chevillon - Nuits - Les St. Georges
Alain Michelot - Nuits - Aux Champs Perdrix
Daniel Rion - Vosne - Les Chaumes
Jean-Marc Pavelot - Savigny - Les Narbantons
Tollot-Beaut et Fils - Aloxe - Les Vercots
Jean-Marc Boillot - Pommard - Jarollieres
Jean-Marc Boillot - Pommard - Rugiens
Le Royer-Girardin - Pommard - Les Rugiens
Le Royer-Girardin - Pommard - Les Charmots
Le Royer-Girardin - Pommard - Les Epenots
Le Royer-Girardin - Beaune - Les Montrevenots
Gagnard-Delagrange - Chassagne - Morgeot
Jean-Marc Morey - Beaune - Greves
Ramonet - Chassagne - Clos St. Jean
Vincent Girardin - Maranges - Clos de Loyeres



Grand Cru:

Domaine - Commune - Vineyard
Philippe Naddef - Gevrey - Mazis Chambertin
Pierre Gelin - Gevrey - Clos de Beze
Denis Bachelet - Gevrey - Charmes Chambertin
Bernard Maume - Gevrey - Mazis Chambertin
Ponsot - Morey - Clos St. Denis
Roumier - Chambolle - Musigny
Hudelot-Noellat - Vosne - Romanee St. Vivant
Robert Arnoux - Vosne - Romanee St. Vivant
Rene Engel - Flagey - Grands Echezaux
Confuron-Cotetidot - Vougeot - Clos de Vougeot
Grivot - Vosne - Richebourg
Meo-Camuzet - Ladoix - Corton (Clos Rognet)
JJ Confuron - Vosne - Romanee St. Vivant

2

Very handy list. I had wanted to compile something like this myself with scattered references in the Morris and Norman books, glad to have been spared the effort!

1 Like
3

I think Ch. de la Tour Clos Vougeot (at least the V.V. bottling) is another one to add to the list.

4

well…“planted” can be misleading…as it doesn’t mean that with the selection massale, etc…much is left of the original planting within any given vineyard…though their descendants might be there.

5

Hi Keith,

From Clive Coates’ Cote D’Or:

Naturally the vines are of different ages - from seventy years old down to infants. A significant replanting took place following the 1985 frosts, and a further parcel replaced one which suffered from eutypoise in 1990/1991. The produce of these young vines is not incorporated into the grand vin, but sometimes recently, as in 1993, a small quantity of vieilles vignes is bottled seperately.


This book was published in 1997, so I didn’t add this wine to the list because I didn’t know, if after the last 15 years, some of the wine from these younger vines were now incorporated into the grand vin or if the vieilles vignes was still produced.

If you can confirm that this wine is still in production and doesn’t include the produce from these younger vines, then yes, it should be added to the list!

6

Hi Stuart,
I’m not sure if I understand what you mean…
I used the word “planted” because that is what Clive Coates used in the article I quoted.
Could you explain this a little more…in language a novice can understand?
If the title of the thread is misleading, is it possible to change it and can you suggest a more appropriate title?
Thanks!
Doug

7

Suggested Additions:

Comte Liger-Belair NSG Le Lavieres; NSG Les Cras; VR La Columbiere (large majority prior to WW2)
Sylvain Cathiard Romanee St. Vivant (planted 1943)
Camille Giroud Beaune Les Cras (CG owns this parcel)
Michel Lafarge Volnay AOC Vendanges Selectionees (this special selection comes from the best barrels of a vineyard planted in 1932. The rest of this vineyard’s output gets blended with other relatively younger Volnay village level parcels and is sold as Lafarge’s straight Volnay)
Pavelot SLB Les Narbontons
Gerard Mugneret SLB Les Gravains

8

where’s Roty with his Charmes TVV (très vieilles vignes) planted in the 1880s?
alan

9

one doesn’t always replant an entire parcel, but instead vine by vine as a particular vine ages/underproduces. With selection massale, I believe the new vines are taken from the old ones and propagated and then grafted, hence “their descendants” in a way.
alan

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Sylvain Cathiard- RSV wasn’t included because I was looking for vines established before the start of WWII.

Michele Lafarge wasn’t included because the list only includes Premiere and Grand Cru vineyards.


Camille Giroud, Pavelot and Gerard Mugneret weren’t listed because they weren’t mentioned in my outdated texts. They should be included on the list if you can confirm that their vines predate the start of WWII.

Thanks for mentioning these!

11

Remington Norman didn’t give dates for the Roty holdings. I just checked the text within the Clive Coates and, sure enough, there it was!

This one definitely belongs on the list!
…and in my cellar!!!

Thanks Alan!

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Thanks for explaining this for me Alan!

Is it possible to change the title of this thread to something more appropriate?

13

Yeesh, only a lawyer can find ambiguity in the word “planted”! Figure the date the plant went into the ground, regardless whether it’s a scion of an older vine.

14

Meadows refers to the Chateau de Chorey/Domaine Jacques Germain Beaune 1er Tante Berthe as being from “extremely old vines in Teurons, VIgnes Franches and Les Cras”. I thought I recalled reading they were from the 1920s but can’t seem to find the reference.

15

I recall Ray Walker also referring to the source of his charmes chambertin as being from very old vines but can’t recall whether they were pre-WW2.

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First of all, thanks for the mention Dan. Though, we couldn’t sit well on the list since we don’t own the vines. Our Charmes-Chambertin “Aux Charmes Haute” and Le Chambertin are from plantings just after WWII, Gevrey-Chambertin 1er Cru “Les Corbeaux” being at or a couple of years before. This is a young pup compared to others’ vines in Corbeaux (Bachelet comes to mind). Others like Roty have Really old Charmes vines, though I don’t know which section he is in. There is a mixture of course due to later plantings through replacement of vines which were performed one by one as opposed to whole lot. I decided to stay away from official v.v. designations, though the corks speak otherwise.

As far as old vines, it is important to note that no two are created equally. In this manner I mean to suggest that with the amount of variables contained within a village, let alone a particular climat, you may find differences in the distance to the water table, variations of soil composition and sub terrain composition which will make a difference on how each vine’s root system will grow and respond. This is of course theoretical, though with the amount of complexity contained within a climat, it is easy to imagine that the material that each vines root system will encounter is not of a consistent composition. [cheers.gif]

17

According to the website of Domaine Fourrier are the 1ere Cru and Grand Cru holdings planted before WW1:

The wines are certainly delicious in most vintages
Claus

18

Doug, just saw this…no need to change the title. It wasn’t misleading. Just, like lots of things in Burgundy, needs understanding of the verbal nuances.

Just like “vielles vignes” which has no real meaning in Burgundy (or elsewhere) it is important to know what someone is saying…and what they aren’t by saying something was planted pre-WW2. It is impossible to tell in most specific cases without knowing more. A vineyard might have been replanted in toto in 1939…right before the Germans marched into Strasbourg…and it is doubtful that all of it is still intact with those plants. Assuming it hasn’t been replanted in blocks, with some blocks left of WW2 (and then what are we talking about?)…individual plants maybe have been replaced as they became too old to be productive and/or diseases. Selection massale allows new plants to be made from cuttings from the old. So, would they be “planted” pre-WW2? If the majority are new such plants, are they? So, it’s possible to have a vineyard that was “planted” in 1939, but has none of the original plants by now…Is that still “planted” pre-WW2? Chances are no one really can define when the vineyard holding was “planted”.

I point this out mainly as a caveat emptor issue…as such things…and others…can be used as marketing tools for the unsuspecting.

For example, one well known producers “vielles vignes” holding averaged 25 years old when I first enquired about the age, though there were a small number of much older plants. Is that bottling really “old vines”?

Another example that has irritated some winemakers in the region is Bize Leroy claims of having ridiculously low yields/per hectare or acre, that makes her neighbors sound like their modest yields constitute overcropping. But, in truth, some of her holdings are/were…just lightly planted, ie, many plants withing a vineyard were uprooted and nothing put in their place…so…rather than having say x hectolitres per hectare…mean a yield per plant…the numbers don’t mean what they imply.

“Organic” or “lutte raisonne” are other abused labels winemakers use to imply that they follow some truly non-chemical regime…when those terms mean nothing much, absent understanding what they do.

I hope I didn’t make this more confusing? [help.gif]

19

For verification see http://www.leserbet.com/index.php?id=9 and then click through to the individual domaines to see the individual vineyard planted dates. Since you are limiting to premier and grand crus only then you should add Liger-Belair NSG Les Cras to the three you mention because Les Cras is a premier cru.

20

Burghound’s notes on the V.V. state: “(from vines that average 95+ years of age).” I think you can safely assume the younger plantings go in the other bottling. The V.V. is indeed still produced.