Real men don't use Coravin

Still got the chili and mustard stains on my sleeve, too…

Imagine that you see that :

and that

immediately, you will think that there is a possibility of fraud : small hole in the capsule and black stains on the top of the cork.

I don’t know if I am a real man, but I am reluctant to use Coravin.
This is a big danger of falsification.

Ken, Lonny, l’d like you to meet…Mohammet…Jugdish, Sidney and Clayton. Grab a seat and make yourselves at home. Don’t be shy about helping yourselves to punch and cookies.

I no longer date out of the same concern!

Needles have existed long before Coravin. Why is there a hole in the capsule, and are you not concerned since you bought it before the release of the Coravin?

Ashish,
Do not conclude too quickly !
The bottle was brought by a friend and opened for one of our meals.
And it was excellent and without doubt.

Of course needles have existed before Coravin ! But it gives an opportunity to use it and change the content of a bottle.

Anyway, I am against Coravin.

The 89 D’Yquem isn’t a great vintage, so no monster harm there…and that’s a half-joke. They’re all pretty good vintages when it’s D’yquem.

As for the OP, it’s hard to take anything seriously when a person is purporting to be a “real man” and then setting the parameters for what it takes, as if their way is the only way. Personally, I’d love the opportunity to try and compare three different wines without my host having to waste any wine if it was just the two of us or if we had limited time. In theory, I think the Coravin is wonderful for personal consumption. I’d also love the Coravin since I don’t usually pound 7 beers worth of wine every night and my wife doesn’t drink that much. I pour out a third to a half of a bottle pretty routinely after three days on the counter. I’ve tried a few dispenser products, and nothing has worked particularly well for preservation. If the Coravin works, bravo. I’m following these with an interest in purchasing.

As for auctions, houses will have to review capsules closely and ensure buyers they have not been Coravined. Fear that you’ll buy someone’s corked or premoxed wines is a totally different issue than whether use of a Coravin has merit for personal consumption.

Imagine the following situation.
You have a rare wine. Let us say Haut-Brion 1945.
You intend to drink a glass.
You pour a glass.
As you have not used the slow oxygenation method, your wine is absolutely not ready for consumption.
You smell it. It is not very charming.
You wait for one hour, but it is not slow oxygenation, it is quick oxygenation due to the movement of pouring the glass.
After one hour, the smell is much nicer.
The taste is not perfect.
You are a little disappointed.
Then you have no motivation to try it again, as you were not satisfied.
And the rest of the bottle will die in your cellar.

Such an idea is extremely depressing pileon deadhorse

Your points are well taken and, as always, elegantly stated, Francois.

I would disagree slightly in two respects:

(1) I don’t think anybody is planning to use Coravin on old treasures like 1945 Haut Brion. I have a harder time understanding the objection to someone having a glass of 2009 Rhys Chardonnay followed by a 2008 Rhys pinot noir one evening, then keeping the remains to finish gradually over the next few months or years.

(2) Any risk of the misuse of Coravin by the Rudy K types will exist, to whatever extent, irrespective of whether any person personally buys, uses, or likes Coravin. You aren’t any more or less vulnerable to being a victim of some nefarious misuse by buying or using one yourself.

I don’t own one, and I don’t have plans in the near term to get one, but I’m just trying to add to the conversation here. Thanks for your unique perspectives, Francois.

Imagine this:

You pop a 1945 Haut Brion. You drink two glasses. You go to work the next day and end up having to work late. You come home, sleep, work the following day, and arrive to a faded, no longer alive 1945 Haut Brion that died the death of oxidation while sitting re-corked on your counter.

At least with the Coravin you can re-visit the 1945 Haut Brion in a few years, or can perhaps open what you think is a less-than perfect bottle when you intend to drink the rest. You might still be able to slow ox the rest, thereby ensuring future joyous consumption as opposed to waste.

I know a Coravin can take wine OUT of a bottle without pulling the cork, but I have no idea why people here infer that it can put wine INTO a bottle without removing the cork…

Also using the laws of physics, one cannot take out the wine from a bottle without replacing the displaced volume with something like argon, air or other liquid (though to a certain extent you can, but you risk creating a high vacuum pressure inside the bottle that can pull your cork into the bottle, esp. for older wine).

Inversely you also cannot put liquid into a bottle that is already filled with liquid AND gas (like Coravins argon). Again you can do this to a certain extent but it will build positive pressure that will push your cork outwards, much like how a champagne cork pops out.

You can theoretically have 2 needles inserted into the bottle at the same time, one sucking the original wine in and the other adding the fake wine to balance the pressure. However if you do this there is a great possibility that you will mix the real wine with the fake wine before you get through the process, hence contaminating the real with that you are trying to extract.

Honestly if I was a forger, I would not bother with this anyway, as the “real” wine has no value to me even if I extract it as no one will buy this, only the money that I get from selling the fake wine matters, and for that I only need an empty bottle of a rare wine, some fake wine and some skills in forging the closure.

Sadly I can’t even imagine doing this

All these comments have their value. There are arguments pro and arguments against.
I will not fight against arguments which have their value.
For me, in my philosophy, I open a bottle to correspond to a certain moment.
There is a communion with this bottle at a certain moment.
To drink from the same bottle one day later is not in my mind : the atmosphere would not be the same.
It is clear that for alcohols, I never finish the bottle the same day and I come back to the alcohol later without being disturbed.
But for wine, I am so used to the ceremony of a communion with one wine that I am reluctant to change this perspective.
I am happy to drink a wine in “one shot”, and I do not see any incentive to proceed differently.

M. Audouze, vous etes un homme serieux et je suis d’accord.
My house is on the cooler side; maybe as a result, I have often enjoyed a young wine on the third day on my counter and very often find it has improved. I also will stick a half-drunk bottle in the fridge without any rpeservative and serve the other half a few days later after it has warmed. An older wine, I save for an occasion where it is appropriate for the entire bottle to be enjoyed. People who do not like wine on the second or third day have a much stronger reason to use a Coravin than I.
M. Audouze, I do not know about a needle hole indicating counterfeit wine, but someone on this board mentioned that if one buys at auction a bottle that has been Coravinned, that bottle has a high chance of having been found corked (embouchonee?).

I checked a few bottles that have been in my cellar for years and a few of them have holes in the capsules. One of you been in my cellar?

I think some capsules were made with them.

I’ve seen cheap capsules with two symmetric holes, but never one hole, never off center, and I can’t remember ever seeing it on anything more upscale than a grocery store bottle.

Is it seriously imagined that any genuine bottle of 45 Haut Brion will have a cork robust enough to allow this?

Et voilà la preuve! You are a real man. :slight_smile:

Testosterone aside, I just got mine and we are going to use it here at the warehouse for visitors. I think it’s cool to be able to offer a lot of people a taste of d’Yquem or SQN or whatever over a long period of time, with little or no quality degradation. So do an Ironman and then drop by.