? re Experiences with Plumpjack CS Aging..cork vs. Stelvin Closure

WINE TALK
1

Hi,

I have a two btls each of their ’02 and ’03 CS Rsv one btl closed with cork and the other one with Stelvin …

has anyone tasted these and have comments on the diferences in their aging…zero notes on their website…except for the original RP notes…sparse notes on CT.

I have also posted this same thread on the RP board in order to get as many opinions as possible

Thank you,

Smiles and Cheers,

Michael

2

Harvey Steinman at WS did a comparative tasting at Plumpjack going back a number of years recently (probably about a year ago) . . .

And Plumpjack donated a 10 year vertical of both closures to UC Davis to do some comparative objective/subjective studies - results have not been posted . . .

Curious to hear what others have to say . . .

Cheers!

3

thank you Larry for your post

I don‘t subscribe to WS, print or Web…

do you happen to remember the general conclusions of the Steinman tasting…cork vs Stelvin ?

Thank you so much,

4

Not sure if this will show up or not, but here’s a shot:

Corks vs. Screw Caps: Let Us Reason Together | Wine Spectator" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers!

5

thank you Larry…

it stopped me after the first few sentences…

if you are a member, do you re,member what he said, in general ?

Thank you so much again,

6

Here’s some of the ‘highlights’ . . .:

Which brings us back to the Plumpjack tasting results. For this tasting, master sommeliers Larry Stone and Rajat Parr checked all the bottles before pouring. “We were ready to put a corked bottle into the tasting anyway,” Stone noted, “and let the chips fall where they may, but they were all good.”

So what we have is this. A group that included two master sommeliers, the winemaker and a bunch of avid wine drinkers divided pretty much equally on which closure fared better in terms of taste. If some percentage of cork-finished wines are ticking time bombs ready to disappoint you when you open them, I’d say the advantage goes to the screw cap, big time.

In this tasting, as in virtually all of the many chances I’ve had in recent years to compare wines that have been in bottle for several years, the screw-capped wines tended to taste fruitier but less developed. But over time, they do develop, and after about 10 years or so, there’s no discernible difference between a screw-capped wine and a cork-finished wine, as long as it’s a perfect cork.

How do we know? Because they’ve been running comparisons in Australia for years now. We can sample screw-capped wines that are 30 or 40 years old, and they still taste fresh and complete. We can compare high-end red wines bottled in the mid 1990s side by side with cork-finished bottles of the same wines. If anyone tells you there’s no data, they’re ignoring a growing mountain of evidence from Australia. What? If it happens south of the equator, it doesn’t count?

Some pundits have raised the specter of reduction in screw-capped wines, their theory being that the virtually oxygen-free environment in the bottle promotes the development of sulfides, which are stinky. You would expect a lot of stinky screw-capped bottles, but that’s simply not the case. Screw-capped wines taste fresh, almost always. Besides, that’s a winemaking issue. If the winemaker controls sulfur and aerates the wine enough before bottling, it’s not a problem.

I think the UC Davis study will be an iinteresting one, and I will communicate with the crew there post holidays to see what’s going on at this point . . .

Cheers!

7

Thank you again…

and may I a very Happy Holiday Season to you and yours !

8

Larry, those ‘highlights’ look like pooled ignorance - so wrong on so many counts

Important detail: what liner did the plumpjack screwcaps have? Saran/tin or saranex only? Vital info.

9

Jamie,

Thank you so much for your post…

I have learned so much about this subject from the book by George Taber, “To Cork or Not to Cork”

After reviewing all of the (hopefully) positives of the Stelvin Closure, as well as the different liners to which you refer,
in the book’s concluding chapters he discusses the concerns about reductive processes
associated with the closure.

if I may say…I have also learned so much from your excellent book as well, for which I thank you

10

I read the quote by Larry, and I thought “Jamie’s gonna say ‘there are no answers here, only questions’.”
More dreaded assertions, claims, lack of scientific-based trials, yada, yada.

But still, after 10-ish years, if an expert tasting panel is evenly split down the middle on the merits of the cork-sealed bottles v the screwcapped ones, that’s got to be somewhat reassuring doesn’t it?
As a drinker, rather than a scientist?
cheers,
Graeme

11

I knew I would get at least one person asking more questions [welldone.gif] and I certainly appreciate it, Jaime. I was also hoping that I would get the reaction that I got from folks like Graeme [welldone.gif] . . .

I think we can all agree that there are many many questions that still remain out there with longevity of wines under screw cap, and answers may not come for some time. Then again, I’m not sure that ANY answers will be complete enough for some, as there will also be ‘doubt’ that an experiment was conducted exactly as it should have been, etc.

As Graeme pointed out, this anectdotal info does provide some good anectdotal evidence that in this case, these wines aged very nicely under screw cap vs the exact same wines under cork. Period. Forget trans ox, forget anything else - just read what folks have to say . . .

Jaime, I’m not sure about the liners, but my guess would be saratin because they started this back with the 97 wine, and I don’t think saranex came along for a couple more years?!?!?!?

More detailed info that may or may not please Jaime and others will be forthcoming from the folks at UC Davis - but as I said, I am pretty sure that ‘holes will be found’ in any study looking at this issue. . . .

A question I posed a long time ago that has not been full answered - can someone point me to actual scientific studies showing that cork is the ‘best’ product to be used for long term cellaring, noting actual variances from cork to cork?!?!?!?

Anyhoo, carry on!

Cheers!

12

Larry,

I again urge you to read Tabor’s book, “To Cork or Not to Cork” which I had mentioned above.

He quotes the many Australian studies and also discusses the reasoning of a fair number German producers when they decided to use Stelvn on even some of their best wines…

Since you obviously have such personal interest in these matters, being a producer yourself, I sure would value your opinions after you have been able to take the time to read it…

In fact, if you PM your mailing address or post it here, … I would be very pleased to send the book along as a present for Santa to put under your tree… Amazon promises to have it there in time…[cheers.gif]