Exactly.
- Interpret as you wish.
- Attack at your leisure.
i think that within the last ten years bordeaux has had a really good run overall. mostly the differences are stylistic. I’ve had some '08s that I love, and I love that they (along with maybe some '11s) are open for business earlier. The main problem these two vintages had was '09 and '10. Everyone was so excited for those that they forgot 08 and maybe dismissed '11 even a little. going back even a little further, i’d say the same is true for 04.
+1 2008 Pichon Baron is awesome, and easily one of the best wines of the vintage.
The latest vintage is the best of the decade? I wonder how many times I’ve heard that before.
I have not tasted the 15 and the 16. IMO, the 09 and the 10 are the greatest back to back vintages ever, equal or superior to the 59 and the 61. The 08 is very pure and mostly red fruit driven perhaps like the 96.
How about ranking from a QPR rather than an absolute qualitative standpoint? I’m a big fan of most QPR vintages, since my wine dollar goes a lot further and often times the wines are more balanced and classic (especially from the more modernist producers). Grouping Bordeaux as a whole, from a USD-price perspective, I’d venture the following order:
2014 (USD at its zenith, plus the Bordelais decided it was time to cut prices significantly to win back market share)
2008 (low futures prices amidst a global economic meltdown, though they increased a fair amount afterwards)
2015 (reportedly very high quality, not unlike 2009 but the worst excesses of “Parkerization” were already receding at many estates; priced well over 2014 but still markedly less than 2009/10)
2016 (qualitatively probably better than 2015 – I haven’t tasted – but also more expensive; still cheaper than 2009/10)
2010 (very high quality, my recollection is that pricing was no worse than 2009)
2009 (very high quality albeit somewhat overwrought at some Right Bank/Rollandized estates)
2012 (priced better than 2011; quality may be mixed but there have been some very good bottles to be had at very fair prices … I was tempted to rank this above 2009)
2011 (priced on futures/release not much lower than 2010 and qualitatively not great, although fine for medium-term drinking and some firesale pricing yields values)
2007 (second lowest-quality vintage and while I can’t comment on futures pricing, I haven’t seen many deals in the aftermarket)
2013 (quality issues can’t compensate for the pricing, which would have been quite reasonable for most vintages … though I’ve picked up some very cheap bottles in fire sales, given that it’s my child’s birth year)
But those are off the cuff impressions by someone who buys in USD and does not pretend to be an expert (I’ve bought Bordeaux sporadically for over 20 years but was turned off by 2000/2003/2005 vintage price jumps and bought only selectively on release/aftermarket until the 2014s, when I started buying futures). EUR futures prices, and buyers paying in EUR, GBP, CAD, will obviously have a different perspective. Not to mention anyone whose quality assessments differ.
For just the past 10 vintages
Top Vintages
2009
2010
2015
2016
Second Tier
2012
2008
2014
2017
Bottom Tier
2011
2013
Of course, there are exceptions there are exceptions up or down in all vintages, but that’s how it looks to me generally speaking…
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I will admit to not going deep enough on 2008.
What are some of your favorites, Kevin? Non-First Growths. I have been debating some selective backfills.
I thought all the top CGs did well, Cos, Montrose, Pinchon LaLande, Pinchon Baron, Palmer, LLC and etc.
sure, I think this is well known, but that’s why I started off with the initial question about rankings within those tiers. For collectors with limited budgets like myself, the question is where to focus any purchases, based on vintage quality, vintage character, and price.
For more recent vintages, I am not sure how many responding have tasted widely through the wines. The vintages are listed in tiers in the order I personally rank them. YMMV
Then you need to consider what goes into calling a vintage good, great, poor, etc.
Style and character matter.
I am not more than generally price savvy. But in the best years, you find more wines of high quality for less money, once you move past the top 50 wines or so. In the lesser years, you find better names selling for consumer-friendly prices.
It really depends on what YOU are looking for in a wine and the price level that works for you…
thanks for your reply. Quite surprised to see that you rate 2012 the best of the second tier vintages! Most have seemed unenthusiastic about 2012 and have seemed to indicate it would not be a long ager. Indeed, many implied 2012 was the worst of the second tier vintages, barely ahead of 2011.
And the consensus seemed to rate 2014 over 2008 although not by much.
You’ve tasted through many more of these than others have, any interest in offering more detail on why you ranked the second tier vintages that way?
Leve definitely has access to far more Bordeaux, especially new releases, than most of us, but that does not necessarily mean he is right as it relates to your palate, of course. I like 2012 and have tried a fair amount, but as a whole think 2014 is a far better vintage. I have found some representative 2012s a bit hollow in the mid-palate, while the 2014s generally have a weight and classic structure to them that I find very appealing, in addition to the acid and red fruit spectrum. Of all the vintages we are discussing, I only bought more 2010s. While 2009 arguably hits higher highs than 2014, I prefer 2014 for pricing and regular enjoyment. I still cannot believe we were able to buy top-notch Classified Growths for $50!
Marcus
There are longer articles on my site about each vintage. Best to read those. I am also getting ready for 2 trips. So, I need to be brief.
The second tier vintages on my list are all about the same level, with 2008 and 2012 favoring the Right Bank and Pessac Leognan, while 2014 and 2017 are better for the Left Bank.
12 seems to reach higher peaks than you find in 08 IMO. There are also better peaks in the Medoc in 12 to me as well.
It really depends on what you are looking for in a wine, matching style, and price.
I tasted about 100 different 2008 wines on this trip, but I will not get to editing and posting on those wines until close to the end of the summer.
If it helps, I will have about 250 new tasting notes on my site for 2015 by the end of the week, I think 
I like 14. There are some very good wines. I find the level of consistency to be less than you find in 2012. 14 is killer in the northern Medoc, but it weakens as you travel south and in the Right Bank. There are several high points in 14, but overall, St. Estephe and Pauillac being 2 of them. But Bordeaux is a massive area, and when considering the quality of an entire vintage, that needs to factor in.
At least to me, consistency is a key component that goes into giving a vintage an overall ranking.
Good point, Jeff, I should qualify that my post really was in reference to left bank. I buy so few right banks these days. I did just grab some 2012 Trotanoy, however, for a little sex appeal!
You tasted those young?
Seems like 89/90 would be a more apt reference point for our generation to debate, as many of us were fortunate to try these wines young, as we have 09/10. These two vintages have certainly stood the test of time, wish I had (1) bought more, (2) sat on them longer and (3) bought half of my lots in 375. Looking at current pricing, and father time, I still think it is a bit wiser to backfill on these vintages. For example, I just bought a 1990 Figeac for less than what the market cost is for 2010 and for close to what 2015 costs.
Interesting thread. I can’t play, though; to declare the quality of a vintage, wouldn’t you have to have consumed a representative sample of the wines? And for me, that does not mean a series of one oz pours at a UGC or other mass tasting, since I never trust my own palate after a dozen wines of so, and never in the chaotic environment those tastings offer. I might be willing to talk about common characteristics I saw but a stack-ranking? not possible for me. More power to those who can
Neil, I’m with you…Wine critics, both the professional and especially the amateur types…often wrong, but never in doubt!
Surprised Neal hasn’t responded with a retaliatory misspelling yet. I too agree with him. The 4 most admired/hyped vintages are either too young for the best wines to be strutting their stuff (09, 10) or are still babies (15) or not even released (16). So at this point it’s a debate which only a few can contribute to based on personal experience.
Then again, given today’s instant availability of TNs and scores on most any individual wine on most any device in most any corner of the world, vintage ratings have little utility outside of the entertainment value debating them. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.