The most manly NHL trophy has to be the Stanley Cup. Stanley is a boys name and rhymes with manly. And a cup is used to protect a mans twig and berries.
The terms don’t bother me and, in the grand scheme of misogyny, are so mild to me as to be close to neutral - my opinion only. I know what people mean when they use them and I don’t need all the caveats and context to keep me from being offended. That said, I generally try to be more specifically descriptive when I talk about a wine, as others have suggested. But I still use feminine and masculine from time to time because I occasionally find them useful.
Exactly. I am female and find the terms to be very useful. They convey much in a single word. And no, feminine does not mean weak and masculine does not mean brutish. I use the words to help define the differences in vintages in the wines I make!
6 Likes
Ok Merrill, please provide details on what they do mean then. I have yet to see anyone do so.
1 Like
For me, when I describe wines as feminine, I am referring to their softness, elegance, absence of harsh tannins. Absence of that gritty over-the-top fruit that I associate with more masculine wines. Masculine wines are bigger (hope I don’t have to explain THAT), more muscular in the way they fall on the palate, harsher on the finish.
For starters. Vive la difference!
Yes indeed, and took the Los Angeles Kings to their first Stanley Cup final Wayne Gretzky(possibly a more difficult challenge than the Lady Byng trophies). I think Bam Bam Cam was a great player, but my loyalties are undivided here.
Gretzky is my favorite athlete of all time and, IMO, the greatest player in team sports history. When ESPN did their ranking of the greatest athletes of all time, I believe it was the equipment manager who said that for as great a hockey player as Wayn Gretzky was, he was an even better person. That gave me chills.
Now, onto more important matter of ranking NHL on-ice trophies from feminine → masculine:
Lady Byng Memorial Trophy – No hockey player wants to win a trophy named after a lady.
Hart Memorial Trophy – I know it’s the MVP, but hearts are associated with emotion, which in turn is associated with women.
Calder Memorial Trophy - Calder is an artist who made mobiles, which are best displayed over cribs. Even male babies are feminine.
Vezina Trophy – Goalies rarely fight; they are definitely the fairer sex…erm, players. Plus “Vezina” sounds slightly sort of Italian but not in a mafioso way, more like wearing a long scarf in the summertime with a sports jacket, loafers and no socks.
Frank J. Selke Trophy – An award for gritty forwards. Would be vying for the most masculine award, but Frank J. Selke’s full name was Francis Joseph Aloysius Selke. Francis is a girl’s name and you should never trust someone named Aloysius to be left alone with a child.
Ted Lindsay Award - Named after a man nicknamed “Terrible Ted”. Badass player. Would rank higher, but “Lindsay” is a girl’s name.
James Norris Memorial Trophy – Named after two great men, Rick James and Chuck Norris. Sure, Rick wore (wears?) his hair like a woman, but as a black belt three times over, Chuck Norris more than makes up for it.
Honorable mention: King Clancy Trophy – Not based on on-ice performance, or it would be the most masculine trophy, hands down. You know what ranks higher than a king? Nothing, that’s what.
Yeah, but where is Gretzky on the all-time Gordie Howe hat trick list? C’mon man.
For me, when I describe wines as feminine, I am referring to their softness, elegance, absence of harsh tannins. Absence of that gritty over-the-top fruit that I associate with more masculine wines. Masculine wines are bigger (hope I don’t have to explain THAT), more muscular in the way they fall on the palate, harsher on the finish.
Goes on to show how nebulous the terms are. When I see feminine, I necessarily don’t immediately think of softness. Nor do I associate over-the-top fruit with masculine wines.
Which is why I really don’t understand what people ultimately mean when they describe a wine as “feminine” or “masculine” - or, worst of all, “sexy”. One person’s feminine can be somebody else’s entirely different thing. I’d rather spend a few more words, trying to describe the wine more accurately than using a catch-all term that doesn’t really tell anything unless one knows the taste of the person using the term.
Not to how mention the terms come across as pretty musty and outdated to the ears of a millennial.
4 Likes
AnandB
June 29, 2022, 1:57am
68
For me, when I describe wines as feminine, I am referring to their softness, elegance, absence of harsh tannins. Absence of that gritty over-the-top fruit that I associate with more masculine wines. Masculine wines are bigger (hope I don’t have to explain THAT), more muscular in the way they fall on the palate, harsher on the finish.
Goes on to show how nebulous the terms are. When I see feminine, I necessarily don’t immediately think of softness. Nor do I associate over-the-top fruit with masculine wines.
Which is why I really don’t understand what people ultimately mean when they describe a wine as “feminine” or “masculine” - or, worst of all, “sexy”. One person’s feminine can be somebody else’s entirely different thing. I’d rather spend a few more words, trying to describe the wine more accurately than using a catch-all term that doesn’t really tell anything unless one knows the taste of the person using the term.
Not to how mention the terms come across as pretty musty and outdated to the ears of a millennial.
Agree. Other people’s feelings aside (not unimportant) it is probably just poor writing to use words with no definite meaning. Your feminine/masculine is perhaps different than mine, and so then what is the point of the note / description?
Is a feminine wine like Simone Biles or Katie Ledecky? Or Harry Styles, JVN, or Prince? Is your masculine wine Chris Hemsworth-esque? Mike Tyson? Eliot Page? Is it a peahen or a peacock? Isn’t this a poorly descriptive set of words if there is this much ambiguity?
Just because you know what you’re saying doesn’t mean you’re effectively conveying it.
5 Likes
For me, when I describe wines as feminine, I am referring to their softness, elegance, absence of harsh tannins. Absence of that gritty over-the-top fruit that I associate with more masculine wines. Masculine wines are bigger (hope I don’t have to explain THAT), more muscular in the way they fall on the palate, harsher on the finish.
Goes on to show how nebulous the terms are. When I see feminine, I necessarily don’t immediately think of softness. Nor do I associate over-the-top fruit with masculine wines.
Which is why I really don’t understand what people ultimately mean when they describe a wine as “feminine” or “masculine” - or, worst of all, “sexy”. One person’s feminine can be somebody else’s entirely different thing. I’d rather spend a few more words, trying to describe the wine more accurately than using a catch-all term that doesn’t really tell anything unless one knows the taste of the person using the term.
Not to how mention the terms come across as pretty musty and outdated to the ears of a millennial.
Agree. Other people’s feelings aside (not unimportant) it is probably just poor writing to use words with no definite meaning. Your feminine/masculine is perhaps different than mine, and so then what is the point of the note / description?
Is a feminine wine like Simone Biles or Katie Ledecky? Or Harry Styles, JVN, or Prince? Is your masculine wine Chris Hemsworth-esque? Mike Tyson? Eliot Page? Is it a peahen or a peacock? Isn’t this a poorly descriptive set of words if there is this much ambiguity?
Just because you know what you’re saying doesn’t mean you’re effectively conveying it.
With everyone’s palate being different from one another descriptors really only work for the author. So why do we bother writing notes if everyone is going to make such a big deal over a couple words that have a different meaning depending on who is reading them? My ripe is someone else’s austere, my bright is someone else’s bracing. Or are we just picking out feminine/masculine? I haven’t heard anyone call a wine non-binary yet but I guess it’s coming. Where does it stop? It stops when you stop complaining about people tasting notes. This entire thread drift is a joke.
Carry on.
3 Likes
RyanC
June 29, 2022, 3:02am
70
Setting aside the interesting discussions about terminology, I just don’t think there’s an answer to this question. Volnay is supposed to be “feminine,” but as far as I’m concerned much of it is not far off from Pommard, which is supposed to be anything but. For my palate, Lafarge–perhaps my favorite producer of them all–is not “feminine” at all in any traditional sense. As others have commented, Vosne is all over the map. So is NSG. So, to be sure, is Chambolle. God knows where MSD falls in the classification. The only appellation I can really point to as fitting the archetype is Amoureuses, which I’ve never found to be anything other than finessed and velvety and slinky and sexy as hell, even from sometimes-bruising producers like de Vogue and Groffier.
1 Like
AnandB
June 29, 2022, 3:20am
71
Goes on to show how nebulous the terms are. When I see feminine, I necessarily don’t immediately think of softness. Nor do I associate over-the-top fruit with masculine wines.
Which is why I really don’t understand what people ultimately mean when they describe a wine as “feminine” or “masculine” - or, worst of all, “sexy”. One person’s feminine can be somebody else’s entirely different thing. I’d rather spend a few more words, trying to describe the wine more accurately than using a catch-all term that doesn’t really tell anything unless one knows the taste of the person using the term.
Not to how mention the terms come across as pretty musty and outdated to the ears of a millennial.
Agree. Other people’s feelings aside (not unimportant) it is probably just poor writing to use words with no definite meaning. Your feminine/masculine is perhaps different than mine, and so then what is the point of the note / description?
Is a feminine wine like Simone Biles or Katie Ledecky? Or Harry Styles, JVN, or Prince? Is your masculine wine Chris Hemsworth-esque? Mike Tyson? Eliot Page? Is it a peahen or a peacock? Isn’t this a poorly descriptive set of words if there is this much ambiguity?
Just because you know what you’re saying doesn’t mean you’re effectively conveying it.
With everyone’s palate being different from one another descriptors really only work for the author. So why do we bother writing notes if everyone is going to make such a big deal over a couple words that have a different meaning depending on who is reading them? My ripe is someone else’s austere, my bright is someone else’s bracing. Or are we just picking out feminine/masculine? I haven’t heard anyone call a wine non-binary yet but I guess it’s coming. Where does it stop? It stops when you stop complaining about people tasting notes. This entire thread drift is a joke.
Carry on.
I’m sure you know that perceiving differently is not the same thing as what is being discussed. I at least know what you mean by ripe, whether I agree or not. Your palate being different from mine is not the same as your vocabulary meaning something different. Tasting notes are writing, and language matters in writing, I hope you can agree.
3 Likes
Mike_S
June 29, 2022, 3:55am
72
Well done Howard. This was clear. We have learned over the last one hundred years that words and descriptors hurt people. This has been true of racial words, religious words and gender words to name a few. I don’t think we can say if someone get hurts by one of these word it is their sensitivity or problem. We can learn. We can do our best to not use words or language that hurts people. Why justify the usage? Why not just stop.
1 Like
I showed this thread to my Wife. She doesn’t get the problem either and she manages 2 employees who go by pronouns they/them/their.
1 Like
For me, when I describe wines as feminine, I am referring to their softness, elegance, absence of harsh tannins. Absence of that gritty over-the-top fruit that I associate with more masculine wines. Masculine wines are bigger (hope I don’t have to explain THAT), more muscular in the way they fall on the palate, harsher on the finish.
Goes on to show how nebulous the terms are. When I see feminine, I necessarily don’t immediately think of softness. Nor do I associate over-the-top fruit with masculine wines.
Which is why I really don’t understand what people ultimately mean when they describe a wine as “feminine” or “masculine” - or, worst of all, “sexy”. One person’s feminine can be somebody else’s entirely different thing. I’d rather spend a few more words, trying to describe the wine more accurately than using a catch-all term that doesn’t really tell anything unless one knows the taste of the person using the term.
Not to how mention the terms come across as pretty musty and outdated to the ears of a millennial.
Agree. Other people’s feelings aside (not unimportant) it is probably just poor writing to use words with no definite meaning. Your feminine/masculine is perhaps different than mine, and so then what is the point of the note / description?
Is a feminine wine like Simone Biles or Katie Ledecky? Or Harry Styles, JVN, or Prince? Is your masculine wine Chris Hemsworth-esque? Mike Tyson? Eliot Page? Is it a peahen or a peacock? Isn’t this a poorly descriptive set of words if there is this much ambiguity?
Just because you know what you’re saying doesn’t mean you’re effectively conveying it.
This is true, but it also shouldn’t stop a person from communicating.
There’s more than enough poorly chosen words out there(many authored by me), but hopefully it’s better to have those words and a conversation about how to speak/post them more clearly next time. Definitely better than to shame people into not speaking for worry about their choices.
2 Likes
Well done Howard. This was clear. We have learned over the last one hundred years that words and descriptors hurt people. This has been true of racial words, religious words and gender words to name a few. I don’t think we can say if someone get hurts by one of these word it is their sensitivity or problem. We can learn. We can do our best to not use words or language that hurts people. Why justify the usage? Why not just stop.
If we wanna be 100% sure not to hurt any people with any words … we’ve got to shut up completely … and even that might hurt somebody …
1 Like
Let’s all aim for 99% then.
1 Like
Yes indeed, and took the Los Angeles Kings to their first Stanley Cup final Wayne Gretzky(possibly a more difficult challenge than the Lady Byng trophies). I think Bam Bam Cam was a great player, but my loyalties are undivided here.
Gretzky is my favorite athlete of all time and, IMO, the greatest player in team sports history. When ESPN did their ranking of the greatest athletes of all time, I believe it was the equipment manager who said that for as great a hockey player as Wayn Gretzky was, he was an even better person. That gave me chills.
Now, onto more important matter of ranking NHL on-ice trophies from feminine → masculine:
Lady Byng Memorial Trophy – No hockey player wants to win a trophy named after a lady.
Hart Memorial Trophy – I know it’s the MVP, but hearts are associated with emotion, which in turn is associated with women.
Calder Memorial Trophy - Calder is an artist who made mobiles, which are best displayed over cribs. Even male babies are feminine.
Vezina Trophy – Goalies rarely fight; they are definitely the fairer sex…erm, players. Plus “Vezina” sounds slightly sort of Italian but not in a mafioso way, more like wearing a long scarf in the summertime with a sports jacket, loafers and no socks.
Frank J. Selke Trophy – An award for gritty forwards. Would be vying for the most masculine award, but Frank J. Selke’s full name was Francis Joseph Aloysius Selke. Francis is a girl’s name and you should never trust someone named Aloysius to be left alone with a child.
Ted Lindsay Award - Named after a man nicknamed “Terrible Ted”. Badass player. Would rank higher, but “Lindsay” is a girl’s name.
James Norris Memorial Trophy – Named after two great men, Rick James and Chuck Norris. Sure, Rick wore (wears?) his
Honorable mention: King Clancy Trophy – Not based on on-ice performance, or it would be the most masculine trophy, hands down. You know what ranks higher than a king? Nothing, that’s what.
Sigh, Corey, Wayne is now more famous for his daughter, Paulina.
At the Masters this year, she was there with Wayne, mom and her child, 99% of the eyes and the crowd were on her. Dustin who?
Funny post, by the way.
Yes indeed, and took the Los Angeles Kings to their first Stanley Cup final Wayne Gretzky(possibly a more difficult challenge than the Lady Byng trophies). I think Bam Bam Cam was a great player, but my loyalties are undivided here.
Gretzky is my favorite athlete of all time and, IMO, the greatest player in team sports history. When ESPN did their ranking of the greatest athletes of all time, I believe it was the equipment manager who said that for as great a hockey player as Wayn Gretzky was, he was an even better person. That gave me chills.
Now, onto more important matter of ranking NHL on-ice trophies from feminine → masculine:
Lady Byng Memorial Trophy – No hockey player wants to win a trophy named after a lady.
Hart Memorial Trophy – I know it’s the MVP, but hearts are associated with emotion, which in turn is associated with women.
Calder Memorial Trophy - Calder is an artist who made mobiles, which are best displayed over cribs. Even male babies are feminine.
Vezina Trophy – Goalies rarely fight; they are definitely the fairer sex…erm, players. Plus “Vezina” sounds slightly sort of Italian but not in a mafioso way, more like wearing a long scarf in the summertime with a sports jacket, loafers and no socks.
Frank J. Selke Trophy – An award for gritty forwards. Would be vying for the most masculine award, but Frank J. Selke’s full name was Francis Joseph Aloysius Selke. Francis is a girl’s name and you should never trust someone named Aloysius to be left alone with a child.
Ted Lindsay Award - Named after a man nicknamed “Terrible Ted”. Badass player. Would rank higher, but “Lindsay” is a girl’s name.
James Norris Memorial Trophy – Named after two great men, Rick James and Chuck Norris. Sure, Rick wore (wears?) his
Honorable mention: King Clancy Trophy – Not based on on-ice performance, or it would be the most masculine trophy, hands down. You know what ranks higher than a king? Nothing, that’s what.
Sigh, Corey, Wayne is now more famous for his daughter, Paulina.
At the Masters this year, she was there with Wayne, mom and her child, 99% of the eyes and the crowd were on her. Dustin who?
Funny post, by the way.
Wow. Robert posting on a Burgundy thread. Did you get lost?
I saw the word “feminine” and popped in to see what it meant!
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